VerizonMath

TEDxAFS - Justin Solonynka, Big Numbers, and VerizonMath

2011-07-08T22:21:00.000-07:00

Justin Solonynka a 7th and 8th grade teacher at Abington Friends School in Jenkintown, PA recently gave a presentation on big numbers for their independently organized TED event TEDxAFS.

Justin used a couple of VerizonMath clips to help express the importance of math on our daily lives. He goes on to give a great presentation about probability and some entertaining ways to help make math more approachable and interesting to students. I even learned something very interesting that I had never realized, but I won't mention it as not to spoil it. It was the part about the Milky Way.

Thank you Justin for including my clips in your talk, mentioning this blog, and for making strides to help reduce innumeracy.

Watch it here:

World Science Festival Discusses VerizonMath - Continued

2011-06-23T20:04:00.000-07:00

The WSF Website has recently been updated with their discussion on The Illusion of Certainty: Risk, Probability and Chance, which includes a few clips from my now infamous Verizon call.

It was very interesting to see and hear the panellists' and audience's reaction to the clips. I imagine this was the largest gathering yet of folks that could truly appreciate it, all in one place.

Thank you Leonard Mlodinow for choosing to include this in your discussion. By the way, as I watched this I made kind of the same anxious expression you did while waiting for the audience to hear the "punch line". :)

Speaking of probability, I never could have imagined back in 2006 when I originally recorded this CS fiasco that it would wind up being used in such an interesting context, incredible.

Here it is for your nerdy enjoyment:

If you don't want to listen to the whole talk (though it's much less painful than my full recording), the panellists start to discuss it at about 29:00.

World Science Festival discusses VerizonMath

2011-06-03T13:59:00.000-07:00

Tonight during a session called "The Illusion of Certainty" clips from my call with the call center reps at Verizon will be referenced. It should be interesting how they work it into the talk.

To watch live visit The World Science Festival website or watch below.

Edit: Broadcast has been delayed. I will update when a new date/link is available.

Watch live streaming video from worldsciencefestival at livestream.com

Verizon to issue Tens of Millions in refunds for erroneous data charges.

2010-10-04T10:56:00.000-07:00

As reported on CNN.com Verizon will be issuing tens of millions of dollars in refunds to customers that were erroneously charged for data usage that they did not initiate.

This has nothing to do with the VerizonMath data rate quoting issue that I was involved with, but is very interesting nonetheless.

I've often wondered about the implications of software glitches, and this one is a doozy. It's probably been hurting Verizon's bottom line for some time even just in customer complaints, customer service calls and customer dissatisfaction (assuming individuals were not able to get the charges reversed). It is tangentially related to my situation in that the CS feedback should really be a priority that is investigated and reacted to early, such that these types of problems are handled when the costs are low (nip in the bud) rather than the typical brush it under the rug and hope it will go away mentality. I can't help but think that if this problem had been caught when the refunds would have amounted to a few million that Verizon's net costs would have been significantly less. Administering millions of refunds has to be a costly process. I wonder if they will issue the refunds including interest.

PS: thanks to Chris for bringing this to my attention.

The Gregory Brothers

2010-06-02T20:57:00.000-07:00

If you haven't yet heard/seen the magic of The Gregory Brothers, you should really check out their youtube channel and their more serious music "Meet the Gregory Brothers" available from online music retailers (google it for a free preview at amazon etc.).

Their auto-tune the news creations are absolutely brilliant, very catchy and hysterically funny. I have reserved a location on my featured "ads" area in the upper right to hopefully drive some traffic and enlighten people to their amazing creations.

New York Times Blog Covers VerizonMath

2010-02-22T06:30:00.000-08:00

My brother sent me a link today to an article on The New York Times Blog that references my experiences with Verizon. It's an interesting article, if you are a math nerd like some of us clearly are :).

In other news, there is hope for nerds to find love, I got hitched last weekend! Good luck fellow nerds, there are women out there who appreciate us :).

Mythbuster Adam Savage Has an $11,000 AT&TMath Moment

2009-06-27T23:50:00.001-07:00

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but a few readers have brought this to my attention recently (thank you!).

It appears Mythbuster Adam Savage has run into the same sort of issue I had with Verizon, with his provider (and now mine) AT&T.

According to Adam's tweets, due to him very quickly getting a following on twitter (50,000 or so), he seems to have already resolved his issue. It sounded like the service he received from the AT&T reps was significantly better than in my case, consistent with my experiences with AT&T CS in general. FYI, no one pays me to say that, I just like to give credit where credit is due.

I wonder if he was quoted over the phone like I was. Actually I hope he was, otherwise he should have been able to do the math. That said, these companies really need to start quoting in $/MB as I had suggested in the aftermath of my debacle. They might also want to start negotiating and charging more reasonable roaming rates. It's hard to believe that while AT&T charges $60/month for "unlimited" data, (which translates to 5gb magically) in the US, it has to charge $75,000 (1,250 times as much!) for the same amount of data if you cross the border into Canada.

Surprisingly, on Verizon, that same 5gb of Canadian roaming data (in my case) would only have cost $10,000 - quite a bargain by comparison ;). Also interestingly, had I had my problem back in the day with AT&T instead of Verizon, my $71.79 vs 71.79c would have been $538 vs. $5.38 - yeesh. Remember, that was about 35 megs, or equivalent to 10ish mobile mp3/iTunes downloads.

Now of course not everyone with that plan uses the whole 5gb, a fact that I'm sure the actuaries at AT&T and Verizon have worked out. So if for example we us a more conservative assumption, like perhaps the average monthly usage is 400mb/month, that would still cost $6000 with AT&T and $800 with Verizon, as roaming data vs. domestic. Something still seems out of whack.

Follow Adam here: https://twitter.com/donttrythis, and check out the comments here: https://twitter.com/#search?q=donttrythis.

Also, this event has prompted me to setup a verizonmath twitter account. At this point I don't know how much twitting is in order, but maybe you'll see something new up there now and then.

As a side note, Adam, if you are reading this, I'd jump the first plane to SF if I ever had the opportunity to have a beer with you and/or the rest of the amazing MB crew and/or a couple of birds! One can dream :).

Failblog Verizonmath Youtube Video hits #45 of all time in Comedy

2009-06-04T09:55:00.001-07:00

It looks like via failblog.com my call (in condensed form) has reached over 1.8 million people, and ranks in the top 50 of all time in terms of user ratings. Not too shabby. :)

Verizon refuses to activate missing man's phone for Sheriff unless he pays overdue balance of $20

2009-05-22T08:54:00.000-07:00

Wow. You can't make this stuff up.

And for a measly $20, or 10 megs of roaming data ;).

Receive SMS updates about the Swine Flu

2009-05-01T07:57:00.000-07:00

A reader has submitted a link to her sms based swine flu update service. According to the article, it will only cost you the same as your usual SMS messages cost.

Get SMS Updates about Swine Flu

Ex-Customer: Why I will never use Verizon again

2009-02-28T14:28:00.000-08:00

Submitted by a verizonmath reader/ex-verizon customer:

My experience with Verizon is like the song, “Hotel California”….”you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave…”

I am no longer a Verizon customer – having cancelled my service five years ago. Verizon seems to think that I owe them over $400 in unpaid bills – and it has taken their stellar billing department five years to figure out that they applied my payments to the wrong accounts. Mind you, my records indicate that they owe me money, so go figure.

My repeated attempts at resolving this situation since 2004 have proved fruitless. No one at Verizon can tell me how they arrived at the dollar amount owed, probably because all invoices attached to my account have been paid in full. I was assigned a Customer Service Rep in their Accounting Dept. who would not provide her last name, identification number, or phone extension. I even offered to drive to Providence, RI & meet with them to review the account – and they declined my offer. So I would have to call the 1-800 number and ask for this person in Customer Service, hold for 30-45 minutes at a time, then leave a message for her. She only returned one of my calls – and left me a voicemail without her phone number. Eventually, Verizon stopped sending me letters and one of their Customer Service Representatives told me my balance was $0. I thought they had finally got their accounting act together & found their billing errors.

Then in 2007, I started getting calls from multiple collection agencies. Each time I receive one of these lovely letters, I have to dispute the validity of the bill in writing, via certified mail/return receipt, and copy/include three years worth of invoices and proofs of payment (about 35+ pages of documents). I even provide them with a easy-to-read spreadsheet showing them the invoice amount, payment date, amount paid, check number, etc. None of this is enough to appease the collection agencies. According to them, proof of payment via bank copies of cashed checks was not enough proof. If that’s the only method I used to pay my invoices, how can I provide additional proof? That’s all there is! I quickly came to the conclusion that collection agencies aren’t there to help me resolve my situation, they just want the amount of money listed on the piece of paper, and they will resort to whatever nasty means necessary to collect it…wrong or right.

In 2008, I received a particularly nasty phone call from one of Verizon’s collection agencies, and finally did what I should have done years ago: I contacted the Attorney General’s Office. Initially, Verizon told them that I shouldn’t be receiving calls from collection agencies. A few months later, they admitted I didn’t owe any money. Since I was still being hounded by collection agencies, I requested that they send me something in writing stating this – so I could share it with the collection agencies in the future. Their response was that it was against their company policy to provide anything in writing. Finally, they relented, and sent me a letter stating my balance was $0 --- but they put the wrong account number on it, so it was absolutely useless. We requested they send us a revised letter, but never received it. My rep at the Attorney General’s Office left his position, so I had to start all over with a new rep there (who has been wonderful). He has contacted Verizon, and he has to start the whole freakin’ process ALL OVER AGAIN. Apparently, they couldn’t just open my file to review the history and the incorrect letter and make a simple account number change. Five years after the fact, their rock star billing department is finally figuring out that they put some of my payments against the wrong account.

Verizon lost my wireless business, online account and regular phone service – and I’ll never use them for cable either. This comes to about $150/month or $1,800/year – which certainly adds up over time. I don’t want to work with a company that puts me hold for 45 mins. every time I need to speak with a Customer Service Rep. I don’t want to pay a company a monthly fee when you can’t get a Billing Specialist who returns your calls --- or a person’s name, direct phone number or email address, for that matter.

These days, Comcast gets all my business, even though it costs a bit more --- and I couldn’t be happier with my service. I never have to hold more than a few minutes to reach a Comcast Customer Service Rep, they provide speedy on-site technical support and every person I speak to there is terrific. I've never had a billing problem, either. In addition, anytime my elderly mother’s phone service goes on the blink, they are at her house the next day!

After all they’ve put me through, I have not received an apology letter or a check refunding me for the overpayment I made to my account. Up until recently, I received several “Come back to Verizon” letters every month. I contacted Verizon several times & asked them to take me off their mailing list, to no avail. Welcome to the Hotel California... Then, I started returning them to the sender with “VERIZON SUCKS. TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST” written in bold black marker on the marketing letter. That seemed to do the trick.

Verizon’s Billing Mistakes: $400+

The Amount of Business I Cost Them By Sharing My Experience Online: Priceless

A Petition for Accountability and True Responsibility

2009-02-23T12:31:00.000-08:00

A friend over at Paper Economy has come up with a brilliant idea. If responsible Americans are going to be footing the tab in terms of either tax dollars or deflated savings, how about the recipients of the bailouts having to give what they can too?

Please visit this story here and please digg the story here to make sure this get's the attention it should.

Where's My iPhone?

2008-05-29T00:46:00.000-07:00

Past VerizonMath reader David Gouldin, now fellow dissatisfied wireless customer has written to inform us of a problem he has been having over the past week or so with AT&T. He appears to have ordered a refurbished iPhone with intentions of developing iPhone apps. Unfortunately the package that should have contained his shiny *new* iPhone contained instead a shiny white AT&T bag, a packing slip (referring to the bag) and nothing else.

Check it out over at wheresmyiphone.blogspot.com.

Good luck David! Please keep us posted.

PBX Hell: 50+ Hacks Get to a Real Person in 10 Seconds or Less

2008-03-04T08:36:00.000-08:00

A reader sent me the following link and it seems like it might be very helpful to those of you visiting this blog as a result of your own customer service nightmare:

PBX Hell: 50+ Hacks Get to a Real Person in 10 Seconds or Less

Good luck!

Hello AT&T

2008-01-18T05:56:00.000-08:00

So, about 1 month without a cell phone was all I could stand.

I really wanted the iPhone, but I wanted gps too, and since the iPhone doesn't have it yet I went with the Blackjack II until the next gen iPhone comes out. I assume Apple will add gps and 3G next time around.

The phone is really great and I purchased the unlimited data plan with tethering, so I can supposedly tether whenever I need to, and even potentially download without caps (unlike Verizon's supposedly unlimited plan which has a 5GB cap).

So far I'm very happy with the phone. Its thin and fast, and I've been getting away with google maps for mobile as gps software. I've tested the bandwidth, and gotten as much as 1MB/s down and 200KB/s up.

The people at the AT&T store were unbelievably different than the Verizon store folks, although, my Verizon store experiences were in NJ while I got the blackjack from an AT&T store in California. I suppose that could account for a difference in mentality and mental capability on its own, but being a Jersey boy I'm thinking its the companies, not the states ;).

The last thing I'd like to tell you all that I found out that might be of interest is that since I really ultimately wanted an iPhone I asked a lot of questions about it. As it turns out, while I received my Blackjack II at a discount for signing with AT&T for 2 years, were I to upgrade even today to an iPhone I would still be able to get the normal iPhone new subscriber price and would not have to break my contract on the Blackjack II. So this means I get all the benefit of having a new phone with GPS and 3G data in the meantime while Apple get's their act together, and when the new one comes out (as long as the policy doesn't change) I can upgrade to the iPhone without paying any penalty other than the $100 I paid for the Blackjack II (after $100 mail in rebate).

This seemed to me to be a great policy and a great deal, at least for me with my sights on the iPhone. Otherwise I might have gone with a prepaid phone or perhaps bought a cheapy phone on ebay and simply signed up for a contract free month to month service. So now I've got the best of both worlds.

Thanks AT&T - so far so good!

PS: the one thing that is interesting, not that I'll be roaming to Canada anytime soon, but AT&T's data rates there are $.015/KB compared with Verizon's now well known $.002/KB. So AT&T comes in at $15.36.MB - which seems outrageous compared to Verizon's $2.05/MB - so you folks on the border, make sure you do your math before making the switch like me.

PPS: I transfered my old Verizon number to my broadvoice account, since I was trialing AT&T and didn't want to hassle with the number portability thing (back and forth) should I decide to cancel. This worked out great as I use Broadvoice's simultanous ring feature so that should anyone call any of my old numbers, it will ring on my new phone. Then if and when I decide I will keep this phone I can either port my older number over to AT&T from Broadvoice, or just keep it in my Broadvoice account for less than $2/month. I'm really happy with their service. Anyone going over their monthly mobile minutes who also spends much of their time in front of a PC might want to look into Broadvoice. I use the free X-Lite from www.counterpath.com as my PC SIP client and make calls right from my computer. For anyone not familiar VoIP I can make and receive calls to and from any phone, and I also get unlimited calls to the US and many other countries included, all for about $27/month (including taxes). Remember too you can make calls from other countries for the same rates - as long as you have reasonable internet access (about 150KB/s up and down). Check out www.broadvoice.com.

Bye Bye Verizon!

2007-12-20T15:00:00.000-08:00

How much more does it cost to acquire a new customer than to keep an existing one? This age old concept is part of any basic marketing or business curriculum anywhere. I guess Verizon can't be bothered with questions like this. Today they could have kept a customer, me, for the cost of a mere refurbished phone, instead they lost me and my $125/month annuity. It would have seemed to me to be a quick decision that would have paid them back within the first 2 weeks at most. Once again, the true meaning of the new word "VerizonMath" is again reinforced by their insightful policies.

I bet many of you are saying to yourselves "it's about time", but I stuck with them for a couple of reasons. 1) They do have great coverage. 2) I had a smart phone with unlimited data access which was convenient for connecting to my home machine, checking email etc. OK, so literally a couple of reasons, now that I look at it, its not that compelling.

My PDA phone has been acting up, shutting itself off right in the middle of calls, which my last one had done, and the one before that as well. It seems like every few months I needed to replace it.

I went to the local Verizon store, and I only wish I had recorded this experience as it was similarly comical to the famous call. First I explained to the greeter that my phone was acting up and I'd like to replace it with some basic phone, even a refurb.

I was "transfered" by the greeter to tech support since the fundamental issue was that my current phone was broken. The apathetic tech called my name, "Mr. George", I also noticed that another similarly enthusiastic tech called "Mrs. Kathy" around the same time. It seemed to me they might have had either a training issue or a software issue, but clearly a case of at least mild retardation all around. I mean, "Mrs. Kathy?" WTF?

Anyway, I explained the situation to the "tech" who explained that since I had insurance on my phone I could call Verizon and have them send me a new phone for $50. Great, except I didn't break the phone, it's mint, but defective. I had actually dropped one of my previous phones and used the insurance to get a new one so I was familiar with that process. I felt this was not a great option considering I have had many problems with this model (Audiovox XV6600) and didn't really want another one. I just wanted a simple phone and I could lose the PDA functions (to carry me until I found a better carrier/phone combo). He couldn't help me, so he "transfered" me to sales.

At this point the "transfer" process started to feel familiar yet very strange considering I was physically there in the store as opposed to on the phone.

I cut to the chase with the sales guy and asked him for a quote, full retail on the cheapest phone they had. He told me $189, and then looked into my account to find that I had a "credit" of $100 from Verizon's "new every 2" program. This was another bit of comedy. Since the cheapest phone they offer costs $189 (before $100 credit), "new every 2" really translates to "new every 2 at your cost of a few hundred for an equivalent phone or $89 for the crappiest phone we have, oh and by the way, we gotcha for another 2 years." Wow, thanks for that. How about I just cancel my contract since I'm past my 2 year commitment? Then I could conceivably just resign for another 2 years as a new customer and get more than $100 off a new phone. But that's what I get as a loyal Verizon customer, nothing.

I chose to cancel and walk. They suggested I cancel on the phone, but I wanted these idiots to personally experience whatever pain Verizon might dish (if any) to them for losing a customer. Honestly, I would have been happy paying $50 for a used crap phone.

So, I'm "transfered" again to customer service where I met the biggest gem of them all. I should have gotten his name. This guy, said "gnome sane" at least 10 times, which was baffling because he hadn't said anything that needed to be explained. I took my receipt for the cancellation and left. Fun times. See ya Verizon, it's been fun.

At any rate, I'm now without a cell phone. However I do have a BroadVoice VOIP account where anyone who has my old cell number, which I've had for years, can reach me as long as I'm in front of my computer. I can have my calls at that number routed by broadvoice to any other number for free - that's my version of number portability without all the hassles of the handover between cell carriers. I've been through my share of those - not fun.

I do have to get a new cell phone within the next month or so, and I wanted to ask for people's opinions. I travel very frequently so I can't go with a carrier/plan that has roaming charges or spotty coverage (I think that rules out T-Mobile (the spotty coverage part) - but that might have changed in the time since I had my account with them). I'd like 3g data, preferably DUN access so I can get online with my PC in the rare case when I'm not near a WI-FI hotspot, however this is not too important. I'd like a smartphone so I can send/receive emails, and preferably one with GPS (non subscription) since I used IGuidance on my PocketPC phone pretty frequently. Also, if it had WI-FI and a SIP client, that would be great too as I could use my BroadVoice account when I was home on the handset and not eat my airtime minutes, and not be stuck in front of my computer (as I am now with my PC based SIP software).

I'm thinking the iPhone would almost do what I want, sans the 3G and the GPS, but I hear from the Apple rumor mill those might be getting solved early next year with the next gen iPhone.

I did have a MOTO RAZR on a recent trip to Australia, and I loved the battery life - not having to charge the phone except every few days was amazing considering I usually had to have my pda phone plugged in whenever I was home and it'd barely last 8 hours on standby.

Anyway, if any of you have ideas, opinions about carriers and service and phones, I'd appreciate the insights. For the first time in over 10 years I don't have a cell phone, it feels a bit strange.

Alternatively, if AT&T want to send me a next gen (or current gen) iPhone or Nokia N95 and treat me like a king with a free subscription for a year just to prove how great they are, and really rub it into Verizon's face what a horrible company they are, that sounds good too.

In the meantime I'm just happy to be rid of those idiots. Honestly, I have never dealt with a company that valued its customers so low, and expressed it so clearly. "Worry free guarantee", "new every two" - my ass. So much for "in" - I'm out!

Verizon is still quoting in fractional cents per KB...

2007-11-04T04:26:00.000-08:00

On my February 12th post here I reported that it appeared that Verizon had finally cleaned up their act with respect to quoting in fractional cents per KB instead of a more reasonable and understandable $ per MB.

It seems that the site I reported on was a b2b site (business to business). Well during some recent random searching on VerizonMath (I know, get a life) I found this.

It appears that while Verizon has cleaned up their quoting practices for b2b, they have not done the same on the consumer front.

The Main Problem with American Politics

2007-10-21T17:11:00.000-07:00

Compromising one's scruples in the pursuit of one's self interests. Putting themselves before their constituents and country. Exchanging ethics for power.

Please visit and if you agree digg this post so that it gets the exposure it deserves:

http://digg.com/politics/Video_Harry_Reid_LIES_about_contribution_to_record_setting_eBay_Auction

It is in my opinion one of the most clearcut examples of what is wrong with our government and our media, both which were designed and claim to serve us.

Please have your mind opened enough to see the truth and understand what's at stake.

Thank you very much for your time.

Jimojo Wireless Hotspots

2007-10-17T21:39:00.000-07:00

This space is reserved for my latest "potential" customer service nightmare...

Teasers: 3 x dialup speed. Fine print download caps... Stay tuned...

Original Recording of Verizon Customer Service Call

2007-08-26T21:45:00.000-07:00

Here is a repost of my verizon call using blogspot's new video feature:

YouTube mystery solved

2007-05-21T16:30:00.000-07:00

It seems that the consumerist.com account at YouTube has been suspended for reasons unknown. Hopefully the issue gets resolved soon.

It seems YouTube has removed my original video...

2007-05-18T15:40:00.000-07:00

Please use the original Putfile link: http://media.putfile.com/Verizon-Bad-Math to get to the full audio.

I have filed feedback to youtube seeking an explanation as I cannot possibly understand what terms of use the video violates.

Please let me know if you have any ideas, or even better use this link to complain to youtube and inquire why it was taken down. The video link is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0HyxQv97Q (required for the youtube feedback form).

Thank you all.

Verizon to start enforcing "Limits" on its "Unlimited" Data Plan

2007-03-03T09:54:00.000-08:00

I had read a while back that there was a "cap" so to speak on Verizon's so called "Unlimited" data package. As many of you know their contract contains a boat load of caveats that makes using the "Unlimited" plan very restrictive. In my opinion, what they really mean, they should clarify by changing the name from "Unlimited" to "Unlimited Web Surfing" plan, or "5 gig/month" plan. It seems that once again their goal is to mislead rather than to be straightfoward.

It appears that in the past if you were to use more than 5 gig of data usage per month, you would get a call or contact from Verizon warning you that you are violating their terms of service and they could either level more charges, or cancel your contract, or just let it slide and maybe wait until the next time.

Reader ZATZAi emailed me to let me know that, according to this thread here they are starting to actively enforce the LIMIT of 5 gigs.

It just seems funny to call something "Unlimited" that is clearly "Limited". Also note that it is called a "Data Plan" not a "Surfing plan."

Verizon - "It's On" - but watch out for your genitals!

2007-02-27T21:57:00.000-08:00

At the risk of really looking like a Verizon basher, I wanted to mention something I just noticed regarding a recent Verizon television ad.

The ad is for Verizon home phone service, and the theme is "It's on". The message of the ad tries to imply that during a power outage their subscriber's phones remain "on", while phones on their up and coming competitor's VoIP systems will presumably be "off".

It reminded me of a skit on one of my all time favorite shows Mr. Show with Bob and David. If you haven't seen this show you should really check it out on DVD. Anyway, the skit is about dueling grocery stores. The instigator store starts the ad duel with stating "we always have plenty of apples", slowly evolving to something along the lines of "your kids will never be abducted in our store." Meanwhile the other store has to jump through hoops to fight the implications of the ads - including an expensive child tracking security system including electronic child collars...

Back to the Verizon ad, all throughout the ad the Verizon customers are happily using their phones and we are supposed to assume that it wouldn't matter with Verizon whether or not the power was out. Of course I find it interesting that most if not all of the "customers" shown are using cordless phones (not mobile phones, cordless home phones). The last time I checked when the power goes out the base station powers off rendering cordless phones as useless as a phone plugged into a cable VoIP phone - a little oversight there maybe?

If you really cared of course you could buy a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) and plug your cordless into that to provide a stop gap for 30 minutes or more during a temporary outage, but of course then you could also do the same with your cable phone equipment - generally speaking your cable connection doesn't drop during a power outage any more than your phone would.

The one semblance of a point and advantage they have left is that if you used a corded phone you would in fact not require power whatsoever - landline corded phones are powered by the phone line itself.

I find it notable and interesting the minor angle Verizon has chosen in this case to spend its marketing dollars on.

For my dollar I vote for VoIP technology - its cheaper and more importantly its safe - it doesn't cause sterility, cancer, birth defects or genital shrinkage.

Verizon finally quotes Canadian roaming rate as $2.05 per MB!

2007-02-12T17:26:00.000-08:00

Verizon has finally conceded and started to quote their roaming rates as "$2.05 per MB." It seems that reason has finally worked its way into their silly little heads.

I'm not sure when this revision was posted. A google cache search only goes back as far as Feb 9, 2007, so no luck there. I do know that back during all the controversy I tried to find the rates online and couldn't find them anywhere. My suspicion back then was that all the materials were pulled pending a review of this situation.

At any rate, at least they finally acknowledge that the correct and clear way to quote is per MB, while of course they still mention the $.002/KB first... go figure.

From: http://b2b.vzw.com/broadband/bba_terms.html

Additional Plan Information
Required Minimum Term, Activation Fees, and Early Termination Fee
• One- or two-year minimum term required
• Activation Fees: $35, except $25 for $59.99 BroadbandAccess Plan
• Early Termination Fee: Up to $175 per line

NationalAccess roaming in Canada will be charged at a rate of $0.002 per kb or $2.05 per MB. For more information on roaming in Canada, visit www.verizonwireless.com/naroaming.

America's Most Wanted - Verizon

2007-02-09T14:21:00.000-08:00

Consumerist.com has a great new story about a guy who sued Verizon and won. In the process a warrant was issued for Verizon's arrest. (Thanks to Davman for the link.)

If anyone knows Verizon's whereabouts, or has had any contact with Verizon in the last few days you may want to alert your local authorities. ;)

Also, I wanted to update anyone still following the blog about Peter, the other known person to get screwed by the cents vs. dollars issue. A while back he initiated contact with Verizon for what I count would be the 10th or so time (Worry free guarantee my a$$) and the notes on his account must have been annotated galore - because according to him, it was like a completely different experience. They immediately took care of his problem. Better late than never, but wow.

I wonder if they shift some of their funds from commercials like "can you hear me now?" to customer service if their bottom line would increase or decrease.

Have a nice weekend!

Verizon tries to stop sale of VerizonMath T-Shirts!

2007-01-09T15:27:00.000-08:00

Verizon is trying to shut down our sale of VerizonMath parody T-Shirts. It seems they think we may be cutting into their T-Shirt sales as a competitor. As if someone might somehow get them confused.

See the T-Shirts for sale (at cost) here.

Your opinions and ideas are welcome and appreciated.

PLEASE digg the story here !

Here's the email:

From: patrick.m.flaherty@verizon.com <patrick.m.flaherty@verizon.com>
Date: Jan 9, 2007 6:08 PM
Subject: Unauthorized Use of the Trademarks VERIZON and the VERIZON Logo
To: info@bluefishtshirts.com, jdean@bluefishtshirts.com
Cc: janis.manning@verizon.com

This email is being sent on behalf of Janis M. Manning, Esquire, Verizon's
Assistant General Counsel – Trademarks & Copyrights.

Dear Mr. Dean:

Please see the attached correspondence.

Very truly yours,

Janis M. Manning

(See attached file: Blue Fish T-Shirts Letter 010907.pdf)

Janis M. Manning, Esquire
Assistant General Counsel – Trademarks & Copyrights
Verizon Corporate Services Group Inc.
1515 North Court House Road, Suite 500
U.S.A.
Phone: 703-351-3080
Fax: 703-351-3669
Email: janis.manning@verizon.com

___________________________________
Patrick M. Flaherty
Counsel - Trademarks & Copyrights
Verizon Corporate Services Corp.
1515 North Court House Road, Suite 500\n
Arlington, Virginia 22201, U.S.A.
tel: 703 351 3020
fax: 703 351 3669
email: patrick.m.flaherty@verizon.com

Happy New Year! + Updates

2007-01-01T08:50:00.000-08:00

Happy New Year everyone!

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I have been working on a few things:

1. Peter's situation is still not yet resolved - I find this utterly amazing. Any ideas you might have as to help get this resolved would be much appreciated. Before my issue was "addressed" and I was refunded, many people mentioned sending verizon emails and posting to their feedback and referencing my blog - perhaps others might be motivated to do this specifically using the link to Peter's story here. He mentioned some new audio - I will bring that to you as soon as I get it. Perhaps you could even email Ana Diaz and reference my email to her from 12/12/2006 regarding addressing Peter's quoting/billing issue.

2. Jeremy has generously created some VerizonMath wallpaper which I have posted here - Thanks Jeremy! Warning - LOTS of ads show up on the fortune city site (using a free site to cut costs). Also, I will post any other wallpaper designs anyone might have or want to create.

3. The t-shirts are NOW Available! See the link in the upper right of the blog.

4. If you get a chance, please check out geekwishlist.net. This is Davman's (a winner of the remix contest) new website. He generously donated his prize to childsplaycharity.org.

Thanks for your support.

Contest Results

2006-12-24T10:20:00.000-08:00

OK,

I've been thinking quite a bit about how to make the call about both contests, its been really hard on both fronts.

T-Shirt Contest

In the end the tally came to (for the top 3):

	5	27	37
1	5	10	5
2	6	3	1
3	3	4	1
Total Votes	14	17	7
Wighted Votes	30	40	18

First of all, I like all 3 of the top voted designs, but as previously expressed I really like #5, but I also think #27 and also #37 are very good. I've been stewing about how to deal with the situation since #27 did get more votes than #5 in terms of votes. Also, as we know, #27 and #37 have some issues in terms of trademark, that have to be addressed - Tony (#27) has provided some updated designs, which I like, but that absolutely noone has given any feedback on.

Like I said, this has been very difficult and I hope that everyone who voted, understands the difficulty - I've decided to give the prize to BOTH top entries - VL for #5, and Tony for #27. Congratulations to both of you - and thank you for your great designs!

I would like to give Beau's #37 what amounts to an honorable mention for his design. Also, should the trademark issue get addressed, and at least a few people express an interest, I will have #37 offered as well.

Beau if you would provide a similar modification ("revizon" I think would work well in your case too), and we can get some feedback on it, it would be great to offer all 3 designs as T-Shirts (as long as my T-Shirt maker will do that for us).

Also, in light of the dwindling interest in this blog :(, I'd like to set the price for the shirts as low as possible so that people might be more likely to buy them. I haven't gotten any feedback on this at all, so I'm making the call that seems to make the most sense. I don't think we would have raised much money for charity. Perhaps the visibility this issue has raised in terms of math education, has done some good in its own right.

Remix Contest

In this case the votes still stand at 0 to 0 - not a single vote. I assume this is again due to the dwindling interest and the holidays. That said, I think I have a solution that will work.

I think both submissions are great, and obviously took a lot of time and effort. Therefore I am again going to award BOTH entries the prize!

Congratulations Davman and Beau!

Coincidentally, today my total ad revenue stands at $289.57 - which is a mere $2.41 higher than 4 x $71.79 (I find that pretty funny). So all 4 of you will be receiving the full prize! (please contact me with your preferred payment method - physical address for a check or paypal email).

Thank you everyone for participating! I will try to get the 2 T-Shirt designs into the hands of the printers ASAP. The earliest I will have news about this is probably Tuesday because of the holiday. I will post the info as soon as I have it.

I wish you all a very Happy Holiday!

Last Call for Votes - Deadline 9:00 PM Eastern

2006-12-22T08:36:00.000-08:00

Ok, its about time we rapped this baby up.

Current Results for the T-Shirt Contest

Here are the current votes for the T-Shirt Contest - as long as I've done my counting right - it was a challenge with some changed votes, and some ambiguous ones.

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30
1		2	2		4	1					1		3					1		1	1	2			1		10
2	1		1	1	5	1	2	1	2		2		1				1			1		2				2	3
3			2		2	3		1		1		1				1		1		2	2	1	1	1	1	1	4
	2	6	10	2	24	8	4	3	4	1	7	1	11	0	0	1	2	4	0	7	5	11	1	1	4	5	40	0	0	0

	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40	41	42	43	44	45	46	47	48	49	50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58
1			1				5					1					1								1		1
2	1	2			1		1										2				2
3	1			1		1	1									1	2
	3	4	3	1	2	1	18	0	0	0	0	3	0	0	0	1	9	0	0	0	4	0	0	0	3	0	3	0

I have weighted the scores such that a #1 vote = 3 points, a #2 vote = 2 and a #3 vote = 1. I also don't think the weightings really affect the outcome, as 027 is clearly in the lead, and 005 has 4 & 5 votes, while 037 has 5 & 1 votes (for #1 and #2 respectively). So no matter how you slice it I think that 005 clearly has the lead over 037... Anyway...

Clearly the current breakdown is, 027, then 005, then 037.

Please post your votes if you havent already, and for 027 and 037, please submit ideas (everyone) or modified designs (from the original designers only please), that address the verizon logo, and one sided T-Shirt issues.

At this point, and I hope without hurting anyone's feelings, I'd like to cast my vote for 005, and explain why. Remember, we can go with more than one design - I think we will wind up doing that.

1) simple
2) cool - I'd wear it without feeling nerdy - (insert laughs here)
3) does not mention verizon
4) recognizable by anyone thats heard the audio
5) it says a lot without saying a lot

Current Results for the Remix Contest

I have receive 0 - that is not a single - vote for the Remix competition. Please cast a vote, or at least post a comment that you can't decide :).

Thank you all for following along. The traffic on this site has dwindled quite a bit from the big bang the first weekend - the rest of you are real die-hards - Thank's so much for participating!

Remix Contest Entries

2006-12-20T12:48:00.000-08:00

I extended the deadline for the remix contest because I was alerted that it was too much to ask for a remix in such a short timeframe, but then the guy who made that comment was just doing a drive by and never returned. The good news is we managed to get 1 more remix from the friendly folks over at verizonmath.com.

So here are the, count 'em, 2 remix entries, and the first one is an old favorite:

1. Davman's Verizon-Cant-Do-Math-Money-Remix
Note: Dave made this baby in a tiny timeframe and IMO did a great job.

2. Beau and Brett's March of the Super Dumb Parrots Mix
Note: There are a few parts in this remix where it sounds like an echo - I've been informed this is actually created using unique samples from the original call - thats a lot of "point zero zero twos!"

Please check them out and submit your votes and comments.

Thanks guys! Nice work!

Preliminary T-Shirt Contest Results

2006-12-19T18:18:00.000-08:00

Thanks to all who submitted designs and voted. There are a bunch of great designs, and some good feedback in the comments. Nice work everybody!

OK, to the top 3 in terms of votes:

027: 10, 3, 3
005: 3, 3, 1
037: 4, 0, 1

I have a couple of comments:

1) this is before my vote :)
2) both 027 and 037 use the Verizon logo sans the "V" swooshy thing.
3) 027 as it stands is a 2 sided design - which drives the cost up - unless we move the back design to the front as well.
4) 005 uses a "2" that looks stylistically similar, but is not the same as the verizon "z" - very clever design.
5) I'm disappointed noone liked 020 (it only got 1 #2, and 1 #3) :(

Anyway, I'll accept votes for one more day, and take them into consideration as well.

That said, I'd like people to think about the fact that IMO (based on speaking with lawyers late monday) we cannot use designs 027 or 037 as they stand because the verizon logo is pretty much intact. Perhaps modifications of those can be produced. I think 005 is safe as it does not even contain the name verizon.

I would like to remind everyone of rule #2: "must not infringe any trademarks." I should have not even allowed these entries, but did thinking that they would inspire other ideas and comments. Also at the time I had not yet consulted lawyers and thought there could be a chance we could safely use them.

I'd like to hear all your thoughts in light of this information.

Thanks very much! I can't wait to get the final product...

T-Shirt Contest Entries

2006-12-18T08:58:00.000-08:00

Hello everyone, and thanks for your entries.

I have received a total of 36 entries for the contest. I'd like to remind everyone that comedy and design are subjective, and ask that people only make positive comments or constructive criticisms.

There are a few things to know about the the way I am hosting the entries:
1. I am hosting this on a free web account, so there are ads - most of the time they are not visible, but sometimes they popup in front - in that case just hit your refresh/reload button.
2. I wrote the photo album viewer myself and its not that polished.
3. the little numbered buttons in the upper right resize the thumbnails dynamically.
4. click on an image to load its higher res version, when it turns green you can click it again to see a larger popup display.
5. if you hover over a thumbnail, you will see its # and credits
6. the images sometimes size strangely wide as their heights are held consistent.

Please vote by posting a comment in the format:

My Votes:
1. #
2. #
3. #

Where obviously the number sign is replaced with the actual number. You don't have to place votes for 3, and feel free to elaborate, for example "I like # but I think the slogan should be ..."

I will compile the results manually. And potentially make the call based on my own preference - hopefully there is a clear winner.

Finally, find the entries here.

Also, I'll be happy to take late entries, just realize they won't get as much visibility.

I'm Time's Man of the Year!!! - And so are You!

2006-12-16T20:56:00.000-08:00

I'd like to congratulate Time for a very timely (forgive the pun) and relevant choice for person of the year. I've never really been a fan, but I think someone over there is definitely on the ball.

Time's Person of the Year

The coincidence in timing of the creation of this blog and Time's choice for "Person of the Year" is pretty amazing.

I started this blog on 12-7-2006 (10 days ago), with simple aspirations - to expose a very funny and mildly disturbing incident to people, with hopes that others would bring forward similar stories and we'd all hopefully gain something from it.

Today the original YouTube posting of the audio of my call has reached the #1 Top Rated for the month for the News and Blogs category with over 360,000 views, 1,700 comments and it has been favorited over 1,100 times.

The orignal putfile.com posting has been viewed over 92,000 times.

This blog has been visited over 220,000 times.

A Google search for verizonmath returns 32,000 hits.

My money has been refunded, verizon's problem has been acknowledged, their policy has supposedly been changed and documented (that remains to be seen), and now many more people are aware of the problem - which will prevent this problem from happening in the future. Also, another great side effect has been that educators are now aware of a deficiency in the teaching of decimals.

Before I go on, I'd just like to ask that anyone with the time and inclination, please put some pressure on Verizon (as you did in my case) to help motivate them to bring Peter's situation the attention it needs to be addressed - I can't belive this has still not been dealt with.

I want to thank everyone who has participated in this discussion and congratulate them for having been part of a new and growing trend. Every individual now has the capacity to bring to light a wrong, expose it to millions of people, and to help make it right.

I think the power of the individual in this new climate will help improve our businesses by ultimately requiring them to provide better customer service, saving people time and therefore improving productivity, and could even help bring peripheral or fundamental problems to light - in this case the sad state of Math education.

Also, it's interesting to realize that this specific process is just one of many that is now possible, where the collective ideas of people around the globe are now able to come together for productive exchange, and produce outputs and outcomes never before possible.

It's a very exciting time!

Thank you all again for all of your supportive comments and feedback. They were very motivational.

T-Shirt Design and Remix Competitions

2006-12-15T10:02:00.000-08:00

Announcing the VerizonMath T-Shirt Design and Remix Competitions!

It occured to me that many of my fellow bloggers might be interested in a T-Shirt marking this event, that could spark conversations (albeit nerdy ones), and help us to recognize one another outside of the blogosphere.

For that reason I have planned this contest seeking the most creative and funny interpretations of the events of the last week.

I have a feeling that while this blog seems to have tapering interest since the initial bubble, we may have not seen the last of this issue.

You can be one of two elite groups of enlightened consumers:
1) those of us who have the inside scoop on fuzzy math, and
2) the 2 (or more) people whose creativity and sense of humor capture the essence of this situation - the winners of the T-Shirt contest.

I am contributing the bulk of my ad revenue for the 2 prizes, and see below for the discussion of potentially splitting the profits with the winner(s) and some other blogger determined cause or charity.

T-Shirt Design Contest:

Prize:

1. $71.79 +
2. 1/3 of profit from T-Shirt sales of their design* (if we decide to markup the price) +
3. Prime advertising location in the upper right of this blog for at least one month - for their website or blog.

Rules: All entries:
1. must be tasteful and funny - and preferably stylish.
2. must not infringe on any trademarks.
3. must not contain any foul language.
4. must not contain any telephone numbers
5. must be received by Monday 12/18/2006 12:00pm ET (noon).
6. must be provided in proportions close to 2000 x 2000 pixels for proper printing (png, bmp, jpg)
7. may be signed by the designer

Remix Contest:

Prize:
1. $71.79 +
2. Prime advertising location in the upper right of this blog for at least one month - for their website or blog. (below the winner for the T-Shirt Contest)
3. Bragging rights

Rules: All entries:
1. must follow all laws regulating music sampling with respect to any outside samples.
2. must be approximately 3 minutes long - give or take.
3. must not contain any foul language
4. must not contain any telephone numbers
5. must be received by Monday 12/18/2006 12:00pm ET (noon).
6. may contain submitter's information embedded.

Original call available here.

I will choose the winning entries with input from blog comments strongly considered.

I am open to suggestions about what the other 2/3 of the T-Shirt profits (if any) would be used for. Of course I'd love to keep all that cash myself and start a wireless phone company, but I'm sure others have better ideas. (*) Also, we could forego any markup whatsoever but then the prize is not quite as rewarding.

Also, should there be runners up, we could have these turned into T-Shirts as well. While there will be no prize money left for these folks (unless this blog starts generating tons of ad revenue), if we decide to mark up the shirts, the 1/3 profit part of the prize would apply to those runners up.

Please submit all entries to verizonmath at gmail.com. I will post entries as they come in, in a follow up post.

I'd like to seed the T-Shirt contest with my entry (small version) (no I won't declare myself winner - unless of course there are no other entries :).

And of course the Remix Competition has already been seeded by DavMan Verizon-Cant-Do-Math-Money-Remix-By-Davman

12-14-2006 - Verizon still quoting .002 cents!

2006-12-14T17:01:00.000-08:00

This just in, posted by isaac.

I put the call out for people to verify if Verizon was actually following through, and here we have the first of the results.

Amazing call, I can't explain how it made me laugh. You have to listen if only for the humor value.

When you go to YouTube, please rate the "video" to get it more visibility.

VerizonWireless Billing Problem

Will Verizon live up to its Worry Free Guarantee®?

2006-12-13T08:39:00.000-08:00

I just received an email from Peter - one of the other people who has been through the exact same situation with Verizon. Verizon has still not contacted him.

I have initiated 3 forms of communication to Verizon to help Peter get his situation resolved:

1. I requested in our Open Letter to Verizon Wireless Management that Verizon address at a very minimum the known cases where they have made this mistake. It is clear that someone at Verizon has clearly been tasked with monitoring this blog.

2. I supplied Peter's contact information to "Ana Diaz" via email reply. I also emailed "her" again, to request receipt of my email, but I have not received any response.

3. Last night I received a call from Michelle at Verizon, calling on behalf of Andrea, who wanted to make sure I knew my account had been credited the $71.79. I supplied Michelle with Peter's name and telephone number, and she assured me that she would contact someone within her organization who could access his account, and "follow through" by conveying to them the details of my situation to help them resolve his. I can post a transcript of this call if necessary.

So far this is an unacceptable response - no response. It confirms that Verizon is more interested in making this go away than making it right. It seems like they are willing to make the same short sighted mistake with Peter's case as they did with mine, and I'm sure they will pay a huge price for it.

At this point we are around the 10th communication to Verizon to get this resolved. Also, his case should now be much better understood as proved by Verizon's apoloogy, and vow to educate its employees to the issue. We expect Verizon to live up to its trademarked Worry Free Guarantee®:

"If you ever have a problem, it becomes our problem the first time you call."

If Peter's situation remains unresolved, I may have to entertain the many requests I've had from major media outlets and bloggers, to bring this situation to the attention of more consumers.

At this point I suggest Verizon also supply a statement on what they will be doing to identify and rectify this mistake as it applies to other customers who have been affected. It is clear that Verizon is not currently doing anything about it, as they have not even taken care of the single case I supplied to them.

Here are the details of Peter's situation:

Peter's initial correspondence with Verizon

Peter's Audio is Here and at YouTube here Verizon still cant count where it is steadily gaining views - over 20,000 in a few days. Remember, that was recorded after Verizon recognized their mistake in my case.

Eyes at Verizon - I suggest you address this now, before the mass outrage this time.

According to google, there are 13,500 links to this blog, and growing.

You get to choose whether they see "Verizon Addresses All Concerns!" or something like "Will Verizon live up to its Worry Free Guarantee®?" when they click those links.

Open Letter to Verizon Wireless Management

2006-12-11T19:55:00.000-08:00

We seem to have gotten my particular problem solved - Thank you. I wish for all of us that process was easier. Hopefully there is no next time.

Initially that was the only problem I was concerned with, but it appears you have current and potential customers who expect something more as evidenced by the interest in this blog, and the comments on hundreds of other blogs, YouTube etc.

As this has played out I have unintentionally become the spokesman for these issues.

My advice to you is to make a public statement about this incident, and assure your customers and potential customers that you are addressing the problems.

Based on the feedback I have received on the many discussion boards on this topic all over the Internet, I think you need to address the following 3 issues:

1. Customer Service

Here is an excerpt from the Customer Satisfaction section of your website:

"Verizon Wireless is committed to delivering outstanding customer satisfaction. We offer quality products and services on the nation's most reliable network, and deliver the industry's best customer service - online, over the phone and in-person."

In my calls to Verizon - prior to the explosion caused by all this, and in the sentiments of people who posted here about their own experiences, it appears that the CSR is not really tasked with "satisfying" the customer so much as they are tasked with dealing with them, or making them go away. In my call specifically, there were a number of problems, but I will focus on just one - the redirection to the web feedback form. Many CSRs have posted on this blog and have specifically commented that they would never do that. I have never had that happen to me before. This was a first, and it hardly demonstrates "the industry's best customer service." I think this was not specifically the fault of the floor manager, but more a fault of the framework in which she has to work.

Perhaps the reps are not rewarded based on customer satisfaction, but on other metrics such as call times, or minimum charge reversals. If that is the case, I suggest that policy is short sighted, and you might want to research methods that would be more effective overall.

This response was not created wholly by a funny recording of a call. I couldn't get this many people to revisit this blog day after day if all they were interested in was a laugh. I suggest to you that this is the collective backlash to less than acceptable customer service.

Addition: 12-12-2006 12:24 PM Eastern - From bruce a.

Let's take a look at a portion of VZW's promise to you as a customer (and note the federal trademark declaring VZW's ownership of the claim itself):

Worry Free Guarantee®

"If you ever have a problem, it becomes our problem the first time you call."

http://aboutus.vzw.com/customersatisfaction/customerexp.html

2. Accuracy in Advertising

I understand there are competitive pressures and industry norms that steer marketing plans and policies. However, I contend that the best business requires ensuring customer expectations are met, and in order to achieve that, your customer must truly understand your pricing. In this case, and as I understand in other cases, possibly including text and picture messaging and rated data (vs. unlimited), you quote your prices using 2 obscure units - partial cents, and KB (kilobytes).

As we now know, beyond a doubt, many people are not great with fractions, decimals and clearly not the third decimal digit with respect to currency. This makes partial cents themselves a difficult unit to "think" in.

Along the same lines, KB is, in my opinion, the most obscure of the 3 most widely recognized units of measure for data. The others being MB (megabytes) and GB (gigabytes). People know MB as it relates to their digital pictures (~.5meg - 2meg) and music files (approx 1MB/minute). People know GB as it relates to their hard drive size. KB, for most people, is an abstract unit that doesn't really relate effectively to anything they do. An email might be 2KB, or 200KB, or anywhere in between, or even more. A 3 minute song file is roughly 3000KB. Again its hard to "think" in KB.

GB of course is much too large to be practical in this case. I think the logical choice is MB.

If you were to quote your rates in $/MB, in this case, the rate would have been $2.05/MB. I think most people would agree, this is a much more clear and understandable rate than $.002/KB - not to mention its much easier to quote correctly.

I know if I download a song, that's roughly 3 minutes long, its roughly 3MB * roughly $2/MB = approximately $6.

This is easy math. No surprises, no upset customers. Possibly no customers at all at that rate, but I contend its better to have fewer, happy customers, than a bunch of angry ones. And that IS in fact your rate - there's no getting away from it unless you lower it.

Using the current rate structure I would have to first multiply the song size by roughly 1000. This is problematic because you have to know the number of KB in a MB - I contend 80 - 90% of your customers don't know that.

Then you must multiply that result by .002 (essentially division) to arrive at the approximately $6.

My method: most people can do in their heads. Your method: probably difficult for many people even with a calculator.

Now if that's what you're looking for, uninformed customers, you have achieved it with those units. But arguably that is what has caused the outrage about this situation, and in my opinion, that is bad business.

3. Attempting to resolve prior incidents where customers were given incorrect quotes

For the short life of this blog there have been a few people who have mentioned that they have experienced this exact situation. I have the name and contact information of one (I will email it to Ana), and prior posts in this blog contain information about a few others.

Perhaps you can search your customer service notes to locate other customers who've had this same experience.

I think a plan towards that goal would not only be the ethical thing to do, it would be repaid with customer loyalty and retention.

We are probably all familiar with that Verizon commercial with the employees of your network facing the competitor's network, where the competitor's network is comprised of cardboard cutouts. I think you need to reinforce to your current and prospective costumers that there is substance and depth behind your company to match that portrayal; reinforce that it is more than just a facade.

Finally, in case anyone was wondering, I am not the slightest bit anti-corporate. I understand that business and competition are the foundations of what make our system work. I sincerely hope this experience helps improve your business, and helps you continue to provide a valuable service to your customers. In my opinion, whether or not this whole experience ultimately moves you toward that goal or away from it is based solely on how you address these concerns.

But then again what do I know, I am just a guy - just 1 guy. Take it or leave it.

Response from Verizon - Getting Closer

2006-12-11T14:08:00.000-08:00

This just in.

Apparently someone is listening, or in this case reading. Or maybe not, this is apparently a response to a complaint I filed through PlanetFeedback.com. While I cannot necessarily attribute this response 100% to them (this blog probably affected this response), it might have provided a higher level of rep than the normal route. Thank you PlanetFeedback.com.

I have finally received acknowledgement that they made the mistake - Thank you for finally admitting it - I hope it doesn't take the average customer the collective laughter of hundreds of thousands of people in the future.

Please note the second bolded part of the email. There are a number of qualifications here that I think need to be addressed.

First, as it applies to Canadian roaming rates - rememer there are 2 rates - 1 for unlimited customers like me, 1 for everyone else. If I'm not mistaken they are $.002 and $.005 respectively. Obviously the same rules apply to the later.

Second, as we saw in Peter's case, the same problem applies to other rates, such as text and picture messaging rates. I'm sure there are also other roaming rates - Mexico maybe? I'm not sure.

Third, they need to ensure that they not just update CSR materials, but also phone sales materials - I'm not positive, but I would guess those are separate groups.

Dear Mr. Vaccaro,

The Executive Relations Team responds to consumer issues that are brought to our executives' attention. I am in receipt of your email via PlanetFeedback.com regarding your data charges while roaming in Canada . Thank you for letting us know that we inadvertently incorrectly quoted a rate to you. We have issued a credit to your account of $71.79. In order to prevent any future inaccuracies, we are supplementing the reference material used by our representatives to better highlight that the Canadian roaming rate is .002 dollars-per-kilobyte, which is equal to .2 cents per kilobyte. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely,

Ana Diaz
Verizon Wireless
West Area Supervisor, Executive Relations

Background - Peter's initial correspondence with Verizon

2006-12-11T13:14:00.000-08:00

Peter had posted this as a comment, but I wanted to promote it to the front page and provide some context. To clarify, this is the correspondence prior to making the call in the previous post. I should have posted this earlier - it would have at least been a bit less confusing :).

I've bolded some of the most interesting parts.

Also, you will see that Eva is apologizing for a 10 day delay in getting back to him.

FIRST EMAIL sent 11/30

From: Peter

Last week I called to inquire about the data rate per kb for internet usage. I was quoted ".015 cents per kilobyte". Upon paying my bill I noticed that the rate was much higher- in fact $.015/kb. I called back to complain but was shocked to here "the rate is .015cents per kilobyte" and "... .015 cents is $.015".

At this point I was dumbfounded by her ignorance and hung up. Calling back I was shocked to experience this scenario a third time so promptly asked for a manager. He reiterated that ".015 cents per kilobyte is equivalent to .015 dollars per kilobyte". I then spent 30 minutes trying to explain to him how these were two very different values to no avail.

While these 4 employees gross deficiency in elementary mathematics is appalling, the fact that Verizon employees these people who are so inept as to misstate a rate by a factor of 100 is disgusting and probably legally unwise. You at this point have one customer that is very angry and frustrated due to this misrepresentation that resulted in a bill literally 100 times larger than expected.

I would suggest that all phone representatives be corrected on their erroneous math as the third representative put me on hold and stated "all the people here say .015 cents is 1.5cents" before retrieving a manager; hence the problem runs beyond the four I spoke with. Initially, I wanted a refund but after experiencing this abyss of ignorance I feel my fees will be better served towards teaching remedial math towards these employees and will be satisfied with an apology.

------------------------------------------------
SECOND EMAIL sent 12/09

From: Peter

since you have not acknowledged my previous complaint of being charged 100 times more than quoted numerous times over the phone for data usage and everyone is speak with is too incompetent to realize the issue I have reported you to the FCC. I will continue pursuing this in each and every avenue at my disposal until you appease me.

------------------------------------------------

RESPONSE FROM VERIZON

From: Verizon Wireless Customer Service MW
Date: Dec 10, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Bill Charges
To: peter xxxxxx

Dear Peter,

Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. I am sorry for the delay in responding to your inquiry. This delay was a result of technical difficulties, which have since been resolved.

My name is Eva, and I am eager to address your concerns for the kilobyte charges.

On behalf of Verizon Wireless, please allow me to apologize for the frustration this matter has caused you. Verizon Wireless has a strong customer commitment to delivering the best from our service and staff. I am disappointed that you feel the service you received did not reflect this commitment.

Upon further review of your account, I found that even though our explanation may have been confusing, you were provided correct information regarding the charge for kilobyte usage. We bill the usage at $0.015 per kilobyte. This means $0.015 of a dollar, not $0.015 of a cent.

The verbal information given at the store was also correct. Your original e-mail indicated you were told "$0.015 cents per kilobyte." If it was the charge you understood it to be, it would be verbally given as 0.015ths of a cent. The charges were presented and billed correctly and I am sorry, no a credits are due at this time.

...

You are a valued customer and we hope we can restore your confidence in Verizon Wireless. Thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services.

Sincerely,

Eva
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"

More audio - Unbelievable!

2006-12-11T06:24:00.000-08:00

This is really amazing. You have to listen until the end, but they are still claiming that there is no difference between dollars and cents.

Peter's Audio Here

Nice work Peter, and thanks for the link.

I think a few more things are starting to become clear from this.

1. They try very hard not to acknowledge this problem.
2. They realize now that they might have their call posted, and are trying to gain some sympathy - she goes out of her way to explain that she will be working Christmas Eve - and mentions very nicely that she will follow up with him. In my case, I got a referal to the web feedback form - quite a change.
3. They are walking a thin line - IMO they know that if they say this the wrong way, they might have thousands of people calling for refunds.

NOT an Isolated Incident & Should Verizon Concede these Mistakes?

2006-12-10T15:58:00.000-08:00

It seems there is a similar case that happened 2 weeks ago. The similarites are amazing. Unfortunately no audio :). And unbeleivably, this has just been brought to my attention.

Incident #2 Here

In the prior post, some great ideas were posted, including the observation that Verizon did not admit to making any mistakes whatsoever. I somehow missed that. In light of this other incident, it becomes clear that Verizon really needs to address this problem instead of just trying to make it go away.

Between the two incidents, there have been 10 customer service reps that either quoted rates in cents or didn't recognize the difference, 6 in mine (5 on the phone, and 1 by implication - Nikki), and 4 in this second case.

I'd like to again open this post to ideas about how to proceed. Some great ideas were contributed in the previous post.

I'll then formulate the response to the Verizon email.

Thanks,
George

Response from Verizon - 100% Refund - .002% Concession

2006-12-10T13:50:00.000-08:00

Hi everyone. Look what just rolled into my inbox.

There are a few things in the email that I don't quite understand, that make me think this was a very carefully, even overly crafted document.

First, notice the awkward wording of "a previous representative has credited for." Credited what? How about "credited your account for?"

Also, whats all this about a "previous representative" altogether? The previous represetative AFAIK was Nikki, and I had no other correspondence with anyone between Nikki and this email. Perhaps they mean within the walls of their organization, not sure why I would care about that though.

Also notice how very carefully they "reiterated" (if you can even call it that since its the first time a Verizon representative has used this term) their actual rate, ".002 dollars per KB." I hope their marketing and support materials will be updated to reflect that clear and unambiguous term (both visually and verbally.)

Thank you all very much for your support, kind words, and the pressure you put on Verizon. I personally think they dealt with this on a Sunday because they had no choice - they were probably getting hammered with calls from customers (and non customers) wondering what their actual policies were, and if they applied to their accounts.

As I stated before it wasn't about the money, it was about the idea of scamming your customers. Are you satisfied? IMO, I think Verizon would be smart to make some sort of public statement about their rates, and their customer service policies.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Here it is for your viewing pleasure.

Dear George Vaccaro,

Thank you for your reply. Again, I apologize for the miscommunications regarding this issue and for your frustration and inconvenience as a result.

In review of your account a previous representative has credited for the data charges in question for $71.79. You may take this amount off of your current amount due. In the future please keep in mind that it is .002 dollars per KB while in Canada.

It has been a pleasure assisting you today, and we appreciate your business. Have a wonderful week!

Sincerely,

Michelle
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"

If you have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and deleting it and all copies and backups thereof. If you are the intended recipient and are a Verizon Wireless customer, this response is subject to the terms of your Customer Agreement.

Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Nikki,

As I described in my original message to you, when I called before entering Canada I spoke to a rep who quoted me a rate of ".002 cents per KB." I thought that seemed like a great rate and confirmed it with her - she confirmed. I even went so far as to have her note it in the account.

Then, knowing that rate, I used your service in Canada accordingly. I now understand that the rate is actually ".002 dollars per KB" despite the fact that all your reps still claim its ".002 cents per KB." Also, had your company a policy of quoting rates per megabyte, which would result in a much more easily interpretable rate $2.05/MB this whole situation could have been avoided.

The main problem I've had in explaining this to your customer service reps is the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. To demonstrate that to you I have provided a link to google that will help you see what my bill should be using the rate that was quoted to me:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=.002+cents%2Fkb+times+35893kb&btnG=Search

As you can see, the charge for my usage at .002 cents/KB is $.71786 - or $.72 rounding up to the nearest cent - 72 cents. That is what I was quoted and that is what I am therefore willing to pay.

If you have any problems understanding this, please leverage someone from your accounting department to help you understand it, as I'm sure they know the difference between dollars and cents.

Finally, if you'd rather not acknowledge this mistake, I'd like to at least offer you some advice. All 5 of your customer service reps quoted me the same rate ".002 cents per KB." You can find an audio recording of 2 of those 5 quoting this rate repeatedly to me when I called yesterday, on my blog here:

http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-from-cents.html

You can also see there that most people understand the difference between dollars and cents, and you therefore might want to offer your reps some training on the issue.

Thanks very much,
George Vaccaro

Yahoo Answers

2006-12-10T09:45:00.000-08:00

Someone asked Yahoo Questions to chime in:

And here is the answer.

2006-12-10T07:28:00.000-08:00

Some of you may have noticed that I wired up Google Adsense.

I know that some of you might see that as going commercial with this whole thing. I just want to assure you that once I reach my goal of $71.07 ($71.79 - 71.79c), I will be donating .999999% of all proceeds to a fund for the education of call center reps*. The rest will be used to cover costs and for my own evil purposes.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, I don't think that all call center reps are stupid, that would be a gross generalization. In fact, for 2 years I did phone support myself (24/7 - no kidding).

Addendum: In all seriousness, and in the spirit that motivated me to create this blog in the first place, please do NOT commit click fraud.

*neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur? Proceeds may be redirected to a charity, other organization, or even Mr. Vaccaro himself, at the sole discretion of George Vaccaro.

Transcript (ala JT)

2006-12-09T21:47:00.000-08:00

Transcription generously, and I DO mean generously provided by JT who gives a shout out to pubatch, rill, and kino on IRC.

Transcription not guaranteed to be 100% perfect - it was 27 minutes long and donated after all...

[Start of Call]

[on hold with Verizon Wireless customer service]

Trent (Verizon): Hi.. Hey, George?

George: Yes.

T: Hey I'm really sorry about that wait there. Hey, I got Mike on the line. He's my supervisor over here and uh, he'll take care of you from here on out, okay?

G: Thanks.

T: Alright.

Mike (Verizon): Thanks Trent. Good evening George, how are you doing this evening?

G: Great, except that I've been trying to resolve this for two calls and over 45 minutes now.

M: Okay, well lets see what we got here, I'm definitely sorry that uh, that you've had to call in that many times. Let's see, ummm, looks like you're questioning some kilobyte usage that was done while in Canada?

G: Well, let me just start out with a basic question.

M: Okay.

G: Do you recognize that there's a difference between “point zero zero two dollars” and “point zero zero two cents”?

[pause]

M: Point zero zero two dollars?

G: Do you recognize that there is actually...

M: ...and point zero zero two cents.

G: Yes, do you you recognize there's a difference between those 2 numbers?

[pause]

M: No.

G: Okay, is there a difference between 2 dollars and 2 cents?

M: Well, yeah, sir..

G: Well okay, is it.. is there a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents?

M: .002 dollars and .002 cents.

G: Yes, is there a difference between..

M: Sir, sir, they're.. they're both the same if you, if you look at 'em on paper-wise

G: No.. they're not, actually. It.. is .5 dollars the same as .5 cents?

M: Is .5 dollars..?

G: Is half a dollar..

M: That would be.. That would be 50 cents.

G: A half a dollar.. is it the same as a half of a cent?

M: No.

G: Right.

M: Okay.

G: So, clearly, two one-thousandths of a dollar, which is your rate for airtime as I now understand it, uh, your rate per kilobyte in Canada is two one-thousandths of a dollar. But two one-thousandths of a dollar is different than two one-thousandths of a *cent*. What I was quoted was .002 cents. That's two one-thousandths of a cent per kilobyte.

M: Mmhm. okay...?

G: I specifically asked the rep. I said, “Are you saying it's .002 dollars or .002 cents?” because I .. *I* recognize that there's a difference. Just like there's a difference between that half a dollar and half a cent.

M: Okay.

G: There's a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. Your rate in Canada is .002 cents.

M: Correct.

G: Uh, it's point, point... Well okay, it's not true, it's .002 dollars. You're still quoting me .002 cents when in fact it's .002 dollars per kilobyte. So, if you want to charge me .002 cents, I'd be happy to pay the bill, the problem is I was charged .002 dollars per kilobyte.

M: Okay, so if you take.. okay.. do you have a calculator with you?

G: Yeah, I do.

G: Okay, take this uh, 71.79.

G: Yeah.

M: And divide that by uh, 35,893 you should come out with .002

G: Yes, and what units should it be? Dollars or cents?

M: Well that's per *kilobyte*.

G: Right. And is it dollars or cents per kilobyte?

M: Well, let me take a look here for ya.

[time passes...]

M: [looking up rates] We're.. we're in Canada..

[time passes...]

M: Hold on one second for me..

[time passes...]

M: [mumbles something about Canada]

[time passes...]

G: For the record, what I was quoted before I went to Canada, I called because I'm on an unlimited plan in the United States and I thought I might be paying more when I go to Canada.

M: Right.

G: What I was quoted was .002 cents. That seems to be what you believe is the rate is .002 cents. Unfortunately, your computer system charged me .002 dollars per kilobit, er, per kilobyte, so my point here is the confusion is on your side, and the first rep I spoke to, the second rep I spoke to, and including you, in calling “.002 dollars” “.002 cents”, that's a hundredfold difference just like one dollar is 100 times different than1 cent.

[time passes...]

M: Okay... looking at the pricing here for ya.

M: Okay.. for data.

M: National roaming access coverage in Canada is .002 per kilobyte cents.

G: Can you say that again?

M: It's .002 cents per kilobyte

G: .002 cents per kilobyte. So you just quoted me again; your price is .002 cents per kilobyte

M: Correct.

G: Okay, so now I'd like you to translate my 35,893 kilobytes into dollars if you would.

M: Okay, if you take .002

G: Cents, remember, cents.

M: Times 35,896. 71 dollars and 79...

G: No, that would be 71 cents because you started with a rate per *cent* and multiplied by the kilobytes, so that would be 71 cents. I'll tell you what the problem is here, is you, you're.. the original person I spoke to *before* I used my airtime...

M: Mmhmm.

G: Up to and including you, are quoting .002 dollars per kilobyte as if it's .002 cents per kilobyte and they're not the same, so I assumed that you guys knew how to do math. No offense here , but i assumed that you knew the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars. And it sounds like there's still some confusion about that. .002 dollars is two one-thousandths of one dollar, or two tenths of one cent, which is very different than two one-thousandths of one cent. It's one hundred times different. [pause] I'll give you a brief example: If you're selling your car and I said I'm gonna give you twenty thousand for it, and I show up with 20,000 pennies, we're not speaking the same language. If you quote me .002 cents it's not the same as .002 dollars. So, when you just did the math .002 times 35,893, you came up with 71 cents. You didn't do the translation from cents to dollars, which would be... you'd have to.. uh, divide by a hundred, so then you get .71 dollars: 71 cents, So, I do understand, even though it seems like maybe *you* don't, that the rate is, I now understand: .002 *dollars* per kilobyte. But that was not what i was quoted, and that's not how I used my airtime because i thought it was... I thought it was cheaper than it actually turned out to be, because I was misquoted.

M: Mmhm.

G: I also had no context. The previous person i was speaking to said I should have had some context because i know what the united states rates - I *don't* know what the United States rates are, because I have an unlimited plan. I don't have to be concerned about the United States rates.

M: Mmhm.

G: So. It all comes down to me being misquoted, and it's hard.. it, would, it, it.. At the time, I, I said there could be some confusion here, so I asked the customer service rep, “Can you please write that down in the notes, that you quoted me .002 cents?”

M: Mmhm.

G: And she did.

M: Right, and I see that.. I see not only one, but I see several reps that have put it in here.

G: Right. So I.. I hope, it sounds like you may not actually see what the problem is yet, but ah..

M: Well, I've been working here 2 years sir, and I've been a supervisor for almost a year and a half.

G: Okay..

M: Okay? Umm, ya know, I'm going by what is.. what is documented here in the system.

G: Right.. so can you tell me then if, if the rate is as you quoted .002 cents per min.. per kilobyte, and I used 35,893.kilobytes, how much should I be charged?

M: By, by.. The way this is calculated? Seventy-one dollars and seventy-nine cents.

G: You did your math wrong, so what I'm saying is you did... bring up your calculator.

M: I.. I've got the calculator in front of me, sir. If i type in .002 and multiply that by 35 thousand, nine hundred...

G: But wait! but but.. Here's the key.. I know, but here's the key: What does the .002 represent? Cents or dollars?

M: It's cents, sir.

G: Okay, .002 cents...

M: So basically you're paying... you're paying two tenths of a penny [pause] per kilobyte. If you want to look at it that way.

G: Two tenths? hold on, hold on.. two tenths of a penny...

M: Mmhm.

G: ...would be .2 cents. You quoted me .002 cents. Do you see what I'm saying? [pause] Two tenths of one cent...

M: Mmhm.

G: ...would be point two cents. You quoted me .002 cents.

M: That's correct.

G: there's a difference between .2 cents and .002 cents. They're 100 times different. So which is the real rate?

M: .002 sir.

G: .002 what?

M: Cents per kilobyte!

[pause]

G: So you just said it was .2 pennies and then you also said it was .002 cents. Those are 2 completely different numbers. They're 100-fold different. Quoting someone .002 cents per kilobyte is different than .002 dollars per kilobyte. I... I don't know what else more I can tell ya. The math... the math on the bill is right if it's .002 dollars per kilobyte. It was quoted .002 cents.

M: George, hold on one second for me okay?

G: Sure.

[on hold for 2 minutes, 35 seconds]

Andrea (Verizon): This is Andrea, the manager on the floor. How can i help you today?

G: Hi, uh, I think we've got a terminology and mathematics problem goin' on here and it's... It's very basic to me, but I think we're just having a problem because of the numbers involved.

A: Okay.

G: Just to summarize, I was quoted before I entered Canada... I was quoted .002 cents per kilobyte.

A: Okay.

G: And, just so you know, I have no context for how much you guys charge for data because I have a unlimited plan in the States so it's uh, I don't... Someone has... had mentioned to me I should have known that what it was because of what I pay in the states, but I pay... I get unlimited usage in the States, so I don't have any knowledge of that. .002 cents per minute is what's quoted for me... is what was quoted to me. My bill reflects .002 *dollars* per minute

A: What do you mean .002 dollars?

G: [big sigh] Okay, I think I have to do this again. Do you recognize that there's a difference between one dollar and one cent?

A: Definitely.

G: Do you recognize there's a difference between half a dollar and half a cent?

A: Definitely

G: Then, do you therefore recognize there's a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents

A: No.

G: No?

A: I mean there's... there's no .002 dollars.

G: Of course there it's.. it's two..

A: There's .002 cents is what you're quoted, and that's what I do show that you... you paid, or that ya know, you're paying for the kilobyte usage.

G: Okay. [sigh] I don't.. I don't know a better way to express this. .002 dollars is the same as .2 cents.

A: Okay. Well how would you... What would .002 dollars look to you?

G: It's point...

A: Obviously, a dollar is “one, decimal, zero, zero” right? So what would a “point zero zero two dollars” look like?

G: I don't know...

A: I've never heard of .002 dollars. .002 dollars, it's just not...

G: This is just... this is just math we're talking about... this is...

A: ...not a full cent.

G: That's right. And...

A: Okay.

G: That's right. And .002 cents is also not a full cent. My point here, is .002 dollars if you do the math, is .00002 cents. It's 1/100th difference. There's a hundred cents in a dollar.

A: But you were quoted .002 cents not .002 dollars.

G: That's correct, but what I was charged...

A: Okay, so take .002 cents as .002

G: Dollars?

A: No,cents... .002

G: [to friend] You gotta hear this.

G: .002...

A: Uh-huh.

G: ...cents, is two one-thousandths of one cent. I'm teaching math here.

A: [laughs] And I... I mean, I'm trying to get what you're saying here, but it's just not...

G: Here's the... Let me... Let me cut to the chase...

A: I'm sorry that you um, already talked to a few different people here..

G: ...Let me cut to the chase.. Well

A: ...and they've all explained to you that you're being billed .002 cents, and if you take...

G: I'm not being billed...

A: ...and put it on your calculator.. it shows you that..

G: No it doesn't, I can do...

A: We never said that you're gonna get billed .00002 cents.

G: That's right, you said I was gonna get billed .002 cents per kilobyte, and I'd be happy to pay that. Now, why don't you bring up your calculator?

A: .002 cents, yeah.

G: Take .002, and we're talkin' about cents, right?

A: Right, .002, and if we multiply that by the amount of kilobyte usage that you have...

G: 35,893.

A: ...35,893, that comes out to what you paid, $71.79.

G: Cents. You never did the conversion from cents to dollars.

A: Cuz we're talkin' about cents, we're gonna multiply the amount of cents by the amount of kilobytes that you used...

G: Okay, ya know, ok...

A: ...not dollars, nobody's mentioning anything about dollars.

G: Let me start over here. Let's... Let's just say, hypothetically, that your rate was one cent per kilobyte. Right?

A: One cent, that would be .01

G: Right. .01 in her calculator. Correct. So, if it was one cent per kilobyte, and I used one hundred kilobytes, what would my charge be? You would take .01...

A: Uh-huh.

G: ...times 100. And you come up with 1.

A: Right.

G: Right? for 1 dollar.

A: Right.

G: That's if it was 1 cent per kilobyte. You're telling me, you're telling me though that the rate is not 1 cent, it's .002 cents.

A: Right. [pause] that's less than one cent.

G: .002 cents, if... if you, if you... in, in pure mathematics, it's the only way I can express this, .002 cents is 2 one thousandths of one cent.

A: Okay.

G: Right?

A: So it's less than a cent right?

G: It's very much less than a cent.

A: Okay.

G: So, two one-thousandths of a cent. So lets start with two cents, just like we started with the one cent.

A: Okay, why are we doing two cents? We need to be doing .002 cents.

G: [big sigh]

A: My, I guess my point is, is that we quoted you .002 cents.

G: That's right.

A: If you write it down is decimal point zero zero two...

G: No, it's not, this... this is what I'm saying...

A: ...so all we have to do with the calculator is decimal point zero zero two and multiply it by how many kilobytes that you had...

G: This is where... This is where you're wrong, I, I don't know how to make this any clearer. Let's try this. Write down 1 cent. How do you write down 1 cent?

A: Point zero one.

G: How do you write down half a cent?

A: Uhhh, that would be point zero zero five of a cent.

G: Okay.

A: [laughing] I don't know, I'm not a mathematician. All I'm telling you is I can tell you that with the calculator...

G: Yep.

A: ...and we take the .002 as everybody has told you that you've called in and spoke to...

G: Yes, but...

A: ...and as our system bill accordingly, is correct.

G: But you said .002 *cents*. Why don't you just write it down on a piece of paper. You have .002 *cents* not dollars. .002 *cents*...

A: Right

G: ...times my 35,893. It's a number, but it's still in *cents*. If you quoted me .002 *dollars*, everything is correct. If you quoted me .002 dollars, which represents two tenths of one cent - per kilobyte, then everything is fine. But I wasn't quoted two tenths of one cent, I was quoted two one-thousandths of one cent. I was quoted .002 cents. It's a terminology problem. You guys are quoting .002 dollars as if it's cents, simply because there's a decimal point involved.

A: We're not quoting .002 dollars, we're quoting .002 *cents*

G: Ah, God.. Honestly.

A: I mean the computer is calculating the, the figure here...

G: I know it is, it's... it's a terminology issue...

A: ...and we are calculating the figure here, and we're all coming up with the same thing - except for you.

G: .002 cents is different than .002 dollars. I'm being charged .002 dollars per kilobyte. .002 dollars is one tenth of one... I mean, two tenths of one cent.

A: Okay, well, I mean it's obviously a difference of opinion...

G: It's not opinion! This is.. this is..

A: ...the amount that you're billed for the data usage is entirely correct.

G: [exasperated] Ah, God.. Okay, well, you know what, I'm gonna post this recording on my blog, and...

A: And that's, if that's what you want to do, that's fine.

G: ...that's what I'm gonna do, and, and then you guys all at Verizon can learn math, and you'll learn how to quote it correctly. The rate as I understand it now, and according to my bill, which is now, I'm getting *after* the usage, is .002 *dollars* per kilobyte. Just so you know. if it was cents, you'd have to quote it as two tenths of one cent, or .2 cents.

A: Right.

G: It would be like - another example: Half of a meter is very different than half of a centimeter. Half of a centimeter is written ".5cm". Half of a meter is ".5m" They're two very different things. You can't just write .002m equals .002cm. They're one-hundredfold different. What I was quoted was a rate per cent, not per dollar. Uh, a rate in cents, not in dollars. If I was quoted .002 dollars, there would be no problem, but I was quoted .002 cents. I was quoted fractions of a cent.

A: Okay, well, the only thing I can say is it was just a misunderstanding between...

G: It was a misunderstanding, but I did the diligence to ask what the actual rate was, when she told me .002 cents, I said "Are you sure? Can you note it in my account?", and she did. As .002 cents. But the problem here is that you're not even acknowledging now that there's a difference between .002 when you're talking about dollars, and .002 cents. My assumption was it was .002 cents, because that's what you told me. But it's been calculated on my bill as .002 dollars, or two tenths of a cent per kilobyte, which is different than two one-thousandths of a cent per kilobyte.

A: Okay.

G: It's a hundredfold different. My, my bill according to what you quoted me should be 71 cents not 71 dollars.

A: Okay. Well, again, there's not... we're not going to be able to make any adjustments to the bill because it is correct, and I do apologize if it was... obviously miscommunication or misunderstanding in explaining that to you.

G: Okay, is there someone i can escalate this to? because...

A: No, I'm the floor manager, so...

G: Because this is not adequate. An example I gave to the previous rep would be, if I said to you "I'll give you twenty thousand for your car" and I showed up with twenty thousand pennies. It... it matters whether you say .002 dollars or .002 cents.

A: Okay.

G: Unfortunately, it seems like our educational system is making an ambiguity between .002 dollars and .002 cents, they're very different.

A: Okay.

G: So I was quoted a different rate than I was charged and you don't seem to want to take responsibility for that.

A: Okay, well, I mean, if you wanted to contact the corporate, you could do that on our website...

G: Can...

A: There's a link under support that you can send an email directly to the corporate office and request that they contact you.

G: I.. I'm on there right now can you just bear with me while I find it?

A: Sure.

G: Support...I don't see it here, where would I see it? Under “Contact Us?”

A: Om, just a second here. [typing]

A: OK, yeah go to the actually the “Contact Us.” Its going to give you a drop down box to choose whether you are a customer or not.

G: Um Hmm

A: Once you select the dropdown box its going give you a grid here that says “send an email.” You type in all of your information...

G: I don't see that. I'm already logged into my account, is that the problem?

A: Are you hitting “Contact Us” at the very top in blue?

G: Om...

A: It should still allow you to get there even if you are logged in.

G: “Contact Us.”

A: At the very top where it says “Home, Site Map.”

G: Yeah, so I click on that.

A: OK

G: “Send us an email – What type of Verizon Customer?”

A: Yes, exactly.

G: “I receive a monthly statement”?

A: Hit “Yes” and then this is the email grid that you fill out.

G: OK great. And what was your name again?

A: Andrea.

G: Andrea, is there a way I can get back in touch with you if I need to?

A: I can just give you my direct line?

G: OK great.

A: It's 888 581 1070 extension xxxx.

G: Alright, thanks.

A: Thank you.

G: Bye bye.

A: Bye.

G: [Click] Buffoons.

[End Of Call]

Coverage

2006-12-09T18:43:00.000-08:00

Digg.com Post #1
Digg.com Post #2
Digg.com - Latest Call
SlashDot.org
Consumerist.com
Information Salad - (Vincent Ferrari's Podcast)
The Wall Street Journal Online
MSNCB.com Clicked - 12/15/2006
DSLReports.com
YouTube
PutFile
Break.com
HowardForums
Ketcheson.net - VerizonMath and how to answer the “Why should I care about this blog?” question
ytmnd.com
del.icio.us
reddit.com
Kelly Hawk's blog
Uncyclopedia
Wikipedia - somehow messed up
Technorati
xkcd.com - Check for Verizon
slackdaddy
Andrés' Spanish Translation of the Transcript
Wireless Advisor Forums
Something Awful Forums
Videosift
Greg Mankiw - a Harvard Professor of Economics
Google Search - verizonmath
Google Blog Search

Davman's remix

2006-12-09T16:07:00.000-08:00

Wow, I just got a huge laugh from the "Latest" remix of my verizon call.

Nice job sir! Thank you very much! Love the ending, and the "Are you sure?" response to the "I'm not a mathemetician" comment.

Verizon-Cant-Do-Math-Money-Remix-By-Davman

Anyone want to do a techno/house remix? I was thinking you could use the many samples of "point" and "zero" as percussion.

Summary for those who haven't pieced all the details together.

2006-12-09T10:31:00.000-08:00

(Thanks phosphor for the image!)

Thanks to everyone for the words of support. So you know, at this point the $72, if I decide to pay it, would be well spent for all the laughs this has provided.

Thanks also for correcting the people who accuse me of being less than sincere. I'd have to have Jerky Boys skills to have pulled that off not being sincere. After re-listening to it, I wished I had realized how funny it was, and thrown in "oh God, God and baby Jesus help us!"

To clear one thing up that people don't seem to understand, I have the unlimited data plan in the states, and no concept of per KB cost. I was heading to Canada so I called verizon to find the voice and data rates. The rep told me the rate, and I actually worked out roughly in my head and out loud the per megabyte cost - I didn't nail it down to $.02 per meg (thanks trevor!), I just roughly estimated it at $1 per meg - thats the degree of accuracy I cared about. I would spend a few bucks, but I wouldn't spend closer to a hundred. I did think the rate was low enough to think something might be wrong, so I reconfirmed the rate with her - ".002 cents / KB?" - "Yes, thats correct." Then I had her note the quote in my account to be sure.

Also, in the states, since the plan is unlimited, and as many posters have pointed out, you could easily use gigs/month, if you were streaming video or audio ala SlingBox. So the thought that I could pay less than a dollar per meg, even $.02 (if I had computed it exactly) didn't seem impossible, or crazy, just slightly suspicious.

I make a great hourly rate, and this clearly hasn't been worth the hours I've spent for the $71 thats in dispute. It's been about false advertising and the principle that if you quote something at a certain price, you should really charge that price - certainly not 100 x that price, and certainly if the mistake is on your side. And its been pretty hysterical following this thing.

Also, to those who think I could have done better or planned this - I was blindsided by 3 levels of customer service rep thinking that 2/1000s of a $ is the same as 2/1000ths of a cent. I did the best I could while in disbelief, and even confused myself at times. I had talked to 2 other reps, one on a different call, and one before the first supervisor (the handoff is in the beginning of the audio), and they all seemed incapable of understanding basic math, so I thought to myself of the AOL cancellation guy Vincent Ferrari, and said to myself "you better record this."

Also, I had tried other approaches - I didn't always just jump into "do you know the difference between $.002 and .002 cents?" That just seemed to be the root of the issue so I figured with the management level people I should cut to the chase.

I am really surprised that I haven't gotten any resolution at this point from Verizon, it seems like it could be a huge can of worms for them, but hey, I guess I should't expect much.

Anyway, thanks again for the support, kind words, funny comments etc. I'll keep the blog updated so anyone interested can see the resolution.

Finally, here is the wrap up:

1. Rep who quoted me initially .002 cents/KB, confirmed the rate, the one who wrote the first note in the account.
2. Brie: rep I called first, went through the same stuff, she seemed to get it, even noted .002 cents/KB on my notes, but then left me a voicemail saying the charges were correct and there would be no credit. Conveniently she never mentioned units in her voicemail, just "point zero zero two."
3. Trent: First rep on 1st call, same nonsense, quoted .002 cents/KB but didn't realize I was being billed 100x that rate so I escalated - after asking twice for a supervisor, the third time was a charm.
4. Mike: Supervisor - first guy I battle on the mp3 - as you all heard ".002 cents/KB"
5. Andrea: Floor Manager - ".002 cents/KB... its a matter of opinion"

All 5 confirmed the rate as ".002 cents/KB", the last 4 "thought" this was the same as "$.002/KB" and claimed my bill reflected the quoted rate.

Thanks for playing.

OMG - this sums it up so well!!!

2006-12-09T06:21:00.000-08:00

Verizon Fails at Math

Thanks to pmccall at digg.com for this!!!

My email response to Verizon

2006-12-08T17:18:00.000-08:00

Nikki,

As I described in my original message to you, when I called before entering Canada I spoke to a rep who quoted me a rate of ".002 cents per KB." I thought that seemed like a great rate and confirmed it with her - she confirmed. I even went so far as to have her note it in the account.

Then, knowing that rate, I used your service in Canada accordingly. I now understand that the rate is actually ".002 dollars per KB" despite the fact that all your reps still claim its ".002 cents per KB." Also, had your company a policy of quoting rates per megabyte, which would result in a much more easily interpretable rate $2.05/MB this whole situation could have been avoided.

The main problem I've had in explaining this to your customer service reps is the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. To demonstrate that to you I have provided a link to google that will help you see what my bill should be using the rate that was quoted to me:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=.002+cents%2Fkb+times+35893kb&btnG=Search

As you can see, the charge for my usage at .002 cents/KB is $.71786 - or $.72 rounding up to the nearest cent - 72 cents. That is what I was quoted and that is what I am therefore willing to pay.

If you have any problems understanding this, please leverage someone from your accounting department to help you understand it, as I'm sure they know the difference between dollars and cents.

Finally, if you'd rather not acknowledge this mistake, I'd like to at least offer you some advice. All 5 of your customer service reps quoted me the same rate ".002 cents per KB." You can find an audio recording of 2 of those 5 quoting this rate repeatedly to me when I called yesterday, on my blog here:

http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-from-cents.html

You can also see there that most people understand the difference between dollars and cents, and you therefore might want to offer your reps some training on the issue.

Thanks very much,
George Vaccaro

Just got an email from Verizon...

2006-12-08T16:38:00.000-08:00

I just received this response to my Post - the one Andrea told me to make using their website. Very helpful. I think I'll hold out.

Dear George Vaccaro,

Hi George. My name is Nikki and I understand your frustration regarding the data charges on your bill. I am happy to assist you today.

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused. Per the remarks in the account, I have found that the customer service representative provided the correct pricing information. However; due to the miscommunication, I am willing to credit half of the data charges which would be $-36.00. Please reply to this email if you would like to accept this offer.

It has been a pleasure assisting you today, and we appreciate your business. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Nikki
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"

Verizon doesn't know Dollars from Cents

2006-12-07T16:14:00.000-08:00

Click here for Audio (27 minutes - PutFile is reporting the time wrong)

Here's the background:

I have a Verizon unlimited data plan in the U.S. and recently crossed the border to Canada. Prior to crossing the border I called customer service to find out what rates I'd be paying for voice and data. The data rate I was quoted was ".002 cents per kilobyte."

I was surprised at the rate so I confirmed it with the representative I spoke to, and she confirmed it "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte." I asked her to note that in my account.

I received my bill and was charged $.002/KB - which is dollars - "point zero zero 2 dollars per kilobyte". As it is translated to cents would be .2 cents or 2 tenths of a cent - which is a 100 times greater rate than I was quoted.

My bill for my data usage in Canada was therefore much greater than I had expected - using the quote I was provided before my usage.

I have tried to resolve this issue with customer service reps on the phone, but noone seems to see the difference between ".002 cents" and ".002 dollars".

Here is the audio of my most recent call with them on the matter. I started recording when they put on the supoervisor - I was a bit ticked at that point.

Who knew what confusion "$1 = 100 cents" could cause?

I'm still currently on the hook for the $71 and change. Hopefully someone at Verizon will figure this out and make ammends.

Please digg this post!!

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VerizonMath

TEDxAFS - Justin Solonynka, Big Numbers, and VerizonMath

World Science Festival Discusses VerizonMath - Continued

World Science Festival discusses VerizonMath

Verizon to issue Tens of Millions in refunds for erroneous data charges.

The Gregory Brothers

New York Times Blog Covers VerizonMath

Mythbuster Adam Savage Has an $11,000 AT&TMath Moment

Failblog Verizonmath Youtube Video hits #45 of all time in Comedy

Verizon refuses to activate missing man's phone for Sheriff unless he pays overdue balance of $20

Receive SMS updates about the Swine Flu

Ex-Customer: Why I will never use Verizon again

A Petition for Accountability and True Responsibility

Where's My iPhone?

PBX Hell: 50+ Hacks Get to a Real Person in 10 Seconds or Less

Hello AT&T

Bye Bye Verizon!

Verizon is still quoting in fractional cents per KB...

The Main Problem with American Politics

Jimojo Wireless Hotspots

Original Recording of Verizon Customer Service Call

YouTube mystery solved

It seems YouTube has removed my original video...

Verizon to start enforcing "Limits" on its "Unlimited" Data Plan

Verizon - "It's On" - but watch out for your genitals!

Verizon finally quotes Canadian roaming rate as $2.05 per MB!

America's Most Wanted - Verizon

Verizon tries to stop sale of VerizonMath T-Shirts!

Happy New Year! + Updates

Contest Results

Last Call for Votes - Deadline 9:00 PM Eastern

Remix Contest Entries

Preliminary T-Shirt Contest Results

T-Shirt Contest Entries

I'm Time's Man of the Year!!! - And so are You!

T-Shirt Design and Remix Competitions

T-Shirt Design Contest:

Remix Contest:

12-14-2006 - Verizon still quoting .002 cents!

Will Verizon live up to its Worry Free Guarantee®?

Open Letter to Verizon Wireless Management

Response from Verizon - Getting Closer

Background - Peter's initial correspondence with Verizon

More audio - Unbelievable!

NOT an Isolated Incident & Should Verizon Concede these Mistakes?

Response from Verizon - 100% Refund - .002% Concession

Yahoo Answers

Ads

Transcript (ala JT)

Coverage

Top Rated Post at YouTube! 2006-12-09

Davman's remix

Summary for those who haven't pieced all the details together.

OMG - this sums it up so well!!!

My email response to Verizon

Just got an email from Verizon...

Verizon doesn't know Dollars from Cents

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