tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post7039991799969918066..comments2024-03-03T22:24:13.350-08:00Comments on VerizonMath: OMG - this sums it up so well!!!George Vaccarohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-21990632475344963752006-12-16T21:16:00.000-08:002006-12-16T21:16:00.000-08:00Mr. Vaccaro,
I'm hoping I might be able to be of ...Mr. Vaccaro,<br /><br />I'm hoping I might be able to be of assistance in this matter. If you elect to deal with Verizon again on this issue have them pull up their calculator, multiply .002 by 35000 and when they say "$70.00" you respond with, "Ah, but you're not done yet. Now you have to divide by 100. We're dealing in cents, which are 1/100th of a dollar so you need to divide that $70.00 total by 100 and then you arrive at the correct total of $0.70."<br /><br />However, there is an easier way. You have Andrea's permission to record and post the phone call on your blog (in effect, publishing it) and she is clearly engaging in an illegal sales tactic called "bait and switch." Bait and switch is when a merchant quotes you one price for an item and charges you another. I would suggest that you notify Verizon that you have this clearly recorded and you are going to turn it over to the consumer protection division of the Attorney General's office in your state. There is no doubt in my mind that anyone with as much as a high school diploma can see they quoted you a rate 100 times less than the rate they charged you and are continuing to insist that is the rate. Verizon's math insufficiency is their problem not yours.<br /><br />By the way if they don't respond favorably I would really contact the Attorney General's office, because if they're doing this to you they're doing this to everyone else. That they are doing this out of ignorance and not malice does not alter the fact that they are committing a crime. This is fraud, and I believe your state's attorney general will agree.TheConsumerWeathermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12184051380686857511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-57417060392609206562006-12-12T05:51:00.000-08:002006-12-12T05:51:00.000-08:00The problem is what people are saying at Verizon.....The problem is what people are saying at Verizon.... I am pretty sur ethey have it written down correctly. what i am guessing is going on is not that they cant do math but that they cannot read decimals. in their billing rates they look at im guessing is shows something like:<br /><br />$0.015/kb<br /><br />and when they vocalise this into words they see a decimal and immediately say cents because its less then a single dollar. they are not grasping that what is written down is actually a dollar ammount despite the lack of a number to the left of teh decimal. <br /><br />this explains why they dont grasp what you are saying...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17807282640663847859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-90688667104846413102006-12-10T09:41:00.000-08:002006-12-10T09:41:00.000-08:00I'm planning on using this in my math lesson tomor...I'm planning on using this in my math lesson tomorrow for 12 year olds to see if they can spot who is wrong. I'd be surprised if they don't say Verizon.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643676838074119398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-59585016351573544152006-12-10T04:24:00.000-08:002006-12-10T04:24:00.000-08:00I wonder how many total hours all of us have spent...I wonder how many total hours all of us have spent listening to this call. We all hoped that the lightbulb would finally shine for these Verizon folks !! What can we do to help you? I am so sad and angry at the same time. This speaks for a generation of non-thinkers. No imagination. You will prevail. Yes, I am going to call Verison. What is the solution here? Some one out there must have connections to the A.P.Dee Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16069829772964032557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-5698934551472660472006-12-09T22:52:00.000-08:002006-12-09T22:52:00.000-08:00This is why teachers used to mark things wrong if ...This is why teachers used to mark things wrong if the units were not labeled correctly.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06458061549075914738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-65781315090147833752006-12-09T18:27:00.000-08:002006-12-09T18:27:00.000-08:00same damn thing happened to me two weeks ago- the ...same damn thing happened to me two weeks ago- the fact you have gone through this and was able to record it probably has kept me from going completely insane.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15082568220137841006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-18089779605704805112006-12-09T10:56:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:56:00.000-08:00Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!
What a story!
Feel fre...Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!<br /><br />What a story!<br /><br />Feel free to use the cartoon linked below, but please do not edit in any way.<br /><br />http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=14zjiv65CaBtilRQLCZqcDRSQJQoyJPatrick "Phos...." Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08132453886854529595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-43488360524822777652006-12-09T10:43:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:43:00.000-08:00So I read about this article on slashdot.org and n...So I read about this article on slashdot.org and nearly peed my pants while listening to the call..... how retarded can 3 people be? Just goes to show that companies usually hire seat fillers (aka ex-walmart greeters, the retarded ones not the old ones) to run their customer service. I think we should all call Andrea on Monday when she gets in to work. If you listened to the call, she left her phone number 888-581-1070 extension 2234. I bet if we get a bunch of people to tell her she is retarded, she might start to believe.<br /><br />What do you think?Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06768004225420494734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-46792947237144017542006-12-09T10:31:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:31:00.000-08:00It appears that math isn't the problem. It's their...It appears that math isn't the problem. It's their ability to read. $0.002 is "Point Zero Zero Two Dollars" and they think since the 002 is to the right of the decimal that it changes the unit to "cents" (not the case) -- The unit should remain "dollars"Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03392433451159247859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-43618512222812976742006-12-09T10:27:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:27:00.000-08:00This is really sad and it shows how American educa...This is really sad and it shows how American education system fails.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045758324961529683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-27046854204617850642006-12-09T10:20:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:20:00.000-08:00I'm in agreement with Jaun on this one. They are m...I'm in agreement with Jaun on this one. They are misinterpreting $0.002 (dollars) by saying it as $0.002 (cents). And since you were quoted at $0.002 (cents) then that's what you should pay. Big mistake on their end.Kewliukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054398626623618208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-48806393817148824612006-12-09T10:07:00.000-08:002006-12-09T10:07:00.000-08:00I thought of another idea:
Say "I've got an idea:...I thought of another idea:<br /><br />Say "I've got an idea: let's just pretend there's no such thing as dollars and do a cents-only bill. .002 cents, as you know, times 15K is 71-point-something. Since there are no dollars in the world, what do you think there are seventy-one of?"Matt Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135702087836146475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-47388137191318729272006-12-09T09:47:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:47:00.000-08:00I would explain them this way:
20 $ = 2000¢
2 $ =...I would explain them this way:<br /><br />20 $ = 2000¢<br />2 $ = 200¢<br />.2$ = 20¢<br />.02$ = 2¢<br />.002$ = .2¢<br />.0002$ = .02¢<br />.00002$ = .002¢<br /><br />So .00002$ * 35893 = 0.71786$Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13640493174299839996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-81852358836212027322006-12-09T09:45:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:45:00.000-08:00I would seriously consider talking to a lawyer. I'...I would seriously consider talking to a lawyer. I'm sure there are *many* people who have used this service in Canada, unknowingly being charged a rate higher than Verizon swears is the correct rate.iotashanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06726291302026299249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-15242779395268876232006-12-09T09:43:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:43:00.000-08:00Apologies if this has been said, but the impressio...Apologies if this has been said, but the impression I get is that they are looking at a chart that says "$.002/KB", wrote that same thing in your file, and are looking at it every time, even when they are saying it wrong. The problem is that they are mentally wired to look at something like $0.50 and think about cents instead of dollars, since in their non-mathematical world, they have to get cents out of their pockets instead of dollars when they see something with a decimal point. So, they truly think that "$0.002" can be said as "0.002 cents". This explains why the one person thinks it's the same thing on paper, and the other person thinks that "0.002 dollars" doesn't even exist. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to pay 100x what you were quoted, but hopefully this elucidates the idiot mindset.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03290146469124783531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-36774602065903770442006-12-09T09:42:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:42:00.000-08:00FYI: I sentthe URLs for this site (and the ytmnd +...FYI: I sentthe URLs for this site (and the ytmnd + digg post) to Engadget Mobile. Hopefully they'll republish your story and continue to raise awareness...jarrodtrainquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03178023262516370977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-89661950329083188532006-12-09T09:30:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:30:00.000-08:00YTMND has got your back. .002c != $.002. don't let...YTMND has got your back. .002c != $.002. don't let them tell you otherwiseUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04068224737082659661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-17517335604210381512006-12-09T09:28:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:28:00.000-08:00Better car analogy: I've always wanted to top off...Better car analogy: I've always wanted to top off and one of those podunk stations on the highway with cheap signage reading:<br /><br />2.24 <br />and then a c with a line through it, indicating the extraordinary price of 2.14 *cents/gallon<br /><br />Tried to google up an image, but couldn't. Find a pic of one of those signs to help clarify your case<br /><br />Keep fighting. Eventually we'll find out if Verizon's CFO can do basic math.Matt Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135702087836146475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-33042385255412474192006-12-09T09:23:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:23:00.000-08:00According to http://solutions.vzwshop.com/bba/pric...According to http://solutions.vzwshop.com/bba/pricing_connect.htm , "NationalAccess roaming in Canada will be charged at a rate of $0.002/kb." So I don't think Verizon will be stuck giving a 99 percent refund to every customer. They'll only need to answer to those customers who happened to get someone to quote them a rate of 0.002 cents and then were able to get that quote permanently engraved in Verizon's records.<br /><br />I'm surprised Verizon was willing to make a permanent record of this quote. When I was shopping for new cell service recently, no one was willing to put the rates they quoted me on paper or even in an email. I always thought there were laws requiring these things to be put in writing, but I guess I've been living in the past.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00323355376771159950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-41265403516656482452006-12-09T09:19:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:19:00.000-08:00Try explaining the conversion to them in an arbitr...Try explaining the conversion to them in an arbitrary unit. They have the math "right" in that they are getting 72.whatever. They simply are then swapping the word dollars where cents should be.<br /><br />Tell them that hypothetically you want to pay in ducks. And they charge .002 ducks per kb. When they do the math they will arrive at 72.whatever ducks as your cost. Swap cents in place of ducks on both sides and voila. 72 cents.<br /><br />That would probably confused them more though.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902067035869418305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-15783366183167632602006-12-09T09:17:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:17:00.000-08:00Excellent, thanks for some beautiful entertainment...Excellent, thanks for some beautiful entertainment. Also, congratulations on remaining calm and reasonable for so long. I agree with the others that to convince them, try to have them work it down by scale. For example, I would try to email them this, or get them to write this down and agree to each line:<br /><br />Suppose the rate is 2 cents per KB:<br />2 cents / KB * 35893KB = 71786 cents = $717.86<br /><br />Suppose the rate is .2 cents per KB:<br />.2 cents / KB * 35893KB = 7178.6 cents = $71.786 (What I was charged!)<br /><br />Suppose the rate is .02 cents per KB:<br />.02 cents / KB * 35893 KB = 717.86 cents = $7.1786<br /><br />Suppose the rate is .002 cents per KB:<br />.002 cents / KB * 35893 KB = 71.786 cents = $.71786 (What I was quoted!)<br /><br />Also, if you get into another conversation with someone who cannot grasp the unit conversion after many tries, I would say something like this:<br /><br /> "I really mean no offense or insult, and I understand how this matter can be confusing, but I believe that you're not understanding the math behind the difference of .002 dollars per kilobyte and .002 cents per kilobyte. It's also difficult to explain it on the phone without being able to write it out. Is there anyone I can speak to who you believe has a very strong understanding of math?" <br /><br />And don't give up, George! Stay calm, reasonable and argue your case. You are in the right. You will prevail.Dave Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095753129649933911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-21641111404039986632006-12-09T09:14:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:14:00.000-08:00I've heard people telling you that you should try ...I've heard people telling you that you should try to get something extra, beyond your 99% refund, out of verizon. Unfortunately, it would seem their contracts state quite deviously :<br /><br />UNLESS THE LAW FORBIDS IT IN ANY PARTICULAR CASE, WE EACH AGREE TO LIMIT CLAIMS FOR DAMAGES OR OTHER MONETARY RELIEF AGAINST EACH OTHER TO DIRECT DAMAGES. THIS LIMITATION AND WAIVER WILL APPLY REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER FRAUD, MISREPRESENTATION, BREACH OF CONTRACT, PERSONAL INJURY, PRODUCTS LIABILITY, OR ANY OTHER THEORY. THIS MEANS THAT NEITHER OF US WILL SEEK ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, TREBLE, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES FROM THE OTHER.<br /><br />It would seem the only way to really stab them for their stupidity would be to file a class-action lawsuit. The good side is that there is absolutely no shortage of lawyers who would love to make a name for themselves with a big case like this and would happily take it on with a no-win, no-fee agreement (given your certainty of winning!)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00539660008723980724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-72954025493392922872006-12-09T08:56:00.000-08:002006-12-09T08:56:00.000-08:00Do NOT let up. They have quoted you repeatedly at ...Do NOT let up. They have quoted you repeatedly at 0.002 cents, and they should freaking honor that. Uuuugh.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653572373967799657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-44413546828456960962006-12-09T08:54:00.000-08:002006-12-09T08:54:00.000-08:00Have you considered taking this to your local news...Have you considered taking this to your local news media? Lots of them have "[channelname] on your side" type segments where they cover people being abused by businesses. Do a google search for "7 on your side" for some examples.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16427585300304834349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-7567196377995713662006-12-09T08:48:00.001-08:002006-12-09T08:48:00.001-08:00George,
My name is Aaron. I'm a freelance journa...George,<br /><br />My name is Aaron. I'm a freelance journalist, and I was wondering if I could ask you some questions about all of this. I'm having troubles finding your e-mail address, so if you could please send me an e-mail at aaron@gamesfirst.com, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks again, and good luck with this.<br /><br />AaronUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470370299406902813noreply@blogger.com