tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post2564315297024450969..comments2024-03-03T22:24:13.350-08:00Comments on VerizonMath: Original Recording of Verizon Customer Service CallGeorge Vaccarohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-74086280773496461862015-10-22T17:39:36.363-07:002015-10-22T17:39:36.363-07:00I remember hearing this years ago and thinking tha...I remember hearing this years ago and thinking that trying to explain it verbally was always a big part of the problem. Until I started going to the bank to get change regularly. I would usually ask for something like this, written <i>exactly</i> like this...<br /><br />$100 of $10<br />$100 of $ 5<br />$ 50 of $ 2<br />$ 25 of $ 1<br />$ 10 of $ 0.50<br />$ 5 of $ 0.20<br /><br />They would give me my 10s, my 5s, my 2s, my 1s, and then stop, squint, and ask one of two things... "Do you mean ten $50 notes and five 20s?" or "I think you've made a mistake here, you meant 50 <i>cents</i> and 20 <i>cents</i> right?" and then rewrite it as 50c and 20c.<br />This happened <i>every single time</i>.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09427945256181429103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-86317635083964617222015-06-20T20:22:08.889-07:002015-06-20T20:22:08.889-07:00@Endit,
interesting perspective. That said, they...@Endit,<br /><br />interesting perspective. That said, they didn't understand follow my logic about 1 dollar/1 cent, half a dollar/half a cent and therefore $.002 being different than .002c. I don't think your idea was simpler than that and therefore would have also likely failed.George Vaccarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-56717218886886657872015-06-20T08:28:40.682-07:002015-06-20T08:28:40.682-07:00I just learned of this incident today.
I don'...I just learned of this incident today.<br /><br />I don't know how much I can blame the customer service rep, since most of their job just involves regurgitating. I mean, do they really have any power? I bet they don't even really care anyways. Verizon and the ones who set the pricing structure are to really blame. They just forgot to put the $ (how convenient, right? they mean 100 times more).<br /><br />I think some people may not be good with numbers below 0 in general - this is why they had no problem with understanding that half a dollar isn't the same as half a cent, but could not comprehend that $0.002 isn't 0.002¢. They weren't using math when they answered your first questions, they were using real life experiences of dealing with money, where the "math" comes automatically, this is why when you tried to use conversions and stuff, they didn't understand at all. Your problem was using math with them, when in the context of money, it was thrown out the window.<br /><br />A better way of describing it would be explain what the $ and ¢ really mean. $ means 1, ¢ means 0.01. Then you just convert each amount to cents to show them the different: dollars is ($0.002 x 100 = 0.2¢), and cents is (¢0.002 x 0.01 = 0.00002¢). I think they would have been able to see that 0.2 is not equal to 0.00002. Another way of describing the $ and ¢ difference would be to replace them with physical objects... like 1000 cereal boxes vs 1000 grains of sand (it's clear which one would take up more space, ie be larger). A cereal box is always larger than a grain of sand, therefore it doesn't matter if you have 100000000000000 of each or 000000.1 of each. Then you simply apply that to $0.002 and 0.002¢ and the difference becomes obvious.Endithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07536368928735990440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-53265378781883107042014-11-06T01:01:06.917-08:002014-11-06T01:01:06.917-08:00@Nathaniel Hartley, yes Nathaniel, ultimately they...@Nathaniel Hartley, yes Nathaniel, ultimately they recognized their mistake, issued a full refund and have since changed their materials to include $2.05/MB though it seems they've repeatedly broken that policy for other quoted rates (likely due to their large size and separate departments, high turnover etc.), and have had mixed results educating their many call center employees (likely innocently). I chalk it up to a failure of our educational system with a little bit of corporate obfuscation mixed in. What I mean is how would any normal person understand (in 2006 mind you) how many KB they were really using and how many fractional cents that ultimately was adding up to? MB were a much more practical unit of measure since songs and pictures were from 1 to 4 MB in size and much more likely for a normal person to relate to. Also $ vs. fractional cents is similarly much easier for an average person too. Verizon likely chose to quote their rates this way to make it hard for a customer to know the "real" cost, which is just bad business. I think they and other mobile phone companies were guilty of that on a number of fronts. At least these days they seem to be moving to fixed price family sharing plans which likely result in less unexpected overages and therefore happier customers.<br /><br />On a separate note, I find it funny how many people posted on this blog and the related youtube, reddit etc. posts claiming I knew what the "real" rate was and was trying to trick the staff. It seems incredible when you hear this phone call that shows that all of the CS reps quoted it wrong, not just once but repeatedly and despite my trying to correct them about it. I did see the mistake I made was to say .002 dollars instead of .2 cents which *might* have helped them to see their mistake sooner. That said, I was reading it literally as a scientist would using the literal units. I certainly wasn't expecting when calling that day that I'd have to perform grade school education to adults, and about their own rates no less.<br /><br />Thanks for your post, I'm glad it seemed to provide at least some entertainment value to you and perhaps some much needed camaraderie regarding your own CS nightmares :).George Vaccarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-54283074667744377242014-11-05T21:13:03.963-08:002014-11-05T21:13:03.963-08:00I had to look this up today when I heard it on an ...I had to look this up today when I heard it on an old "Free Beer and Hotwings" podcast. It is incredible how much press this has got, I mean teachers have put it into their lesson plans in grade schools. I have faced similar torture at the hands of cell service representatives and you have unbelievable patience! Please tell me that they refunded your money eventually? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15998901721943429441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-19746360307009021412014-06-01T10:00:20.483-07:002014-06-01T10:00:20.483-07:00Clueless or in denialClueless or in denialMediaLenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00082013987413333089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-21190276859071836222013-03-13T13:32:17.119-07:002013-03-13T13:32:17.119-07:00Logic. I guess Verizon does not have it.Logic. I guess Verizon does not have it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11605163832678245076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-40562397266759663062012-12-11T19:38:23.871-08:002012-12-11T19:38:23.871-08:00I think if you had stopped using the word cents an...I think if you had stopped using the word cents and started using the word penny you would have shown them their error. They second rep. you spoke to absolutely understood your problem when you asked her to write out 1 cent and 1/2 of a cent.<br /><br />People write 50 cents as $0.50, or 50c. They were clearly thinking of 0.002 cents as $0.002, not 0.002c. By speaking in pennies, it would have not allowed them to think of it in these terms, and they'd have to think of it in terms of pennies, which are a stand alone unit. 0.002 pennies, not $0.002.incognitus.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03560281231375811960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-62965969944008226122012-10-11T11:10:07.414-07:002012-10-11T11:10:07.414-07:00I know where you messed up in explaining it to the...I know where you messed up in explaining it to them. You should have had them write the .002 cents and made them put the cent sign next to it after each mathematical step so that the final outcome still had the cent sign next to it. YOu know...the "C" with a line throug it. If they had done the math under the same label everything would have been fine.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470690115251607048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-41200974519250161992012-07-30T04:29:45.324-07:002012-07-30T04:29:45.324-07:00heres what you can do to make this even more clear...heres what you can do to make this even more clear....http://lmgtfy.com/?q=.002+cents+x+35893Karatemunk3yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14640191640905710478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-72989482336359834462012-07-28T06:16:31.969-07:002012-07-28T06:16:31.969-07:00I know this is old, but I just saw this for the fi...I know this is old, but I just saw this for the first time, and I think I know why the reps were quoting you incorrectly. They kept saying they had a calculator. Calculators don't display dollar or cent signs. So when they did the math, they read the answer: 71.786. They read it off as dollars like someone normally would. Easy solution: Ask the rep "If you have one half of a dollar, how much in change would that be?" If they say "fifty cents", then say "Yes, 50 cents. NOT .5 cents, which is less than a penny." If that failed, you could have just said that you'll bring by 71.786 pennies, and let them convert that to dollars themselves. I'm glad it all got resolved, by the way.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795901726780872382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-16800168510449600602012-05-21T13:13:19.352-07:002012-05-21T13:13:19.352-07:00@Fabuit,
I'm from the US and despite the folk...@Fabuit,<br /><br />I'm from the US and despite the folks on the call insisting I was wrong I stuck with it and ultimately helped them and many others realize why their math was wrong and what the implications were. Am I stupid?<br /><br />I think you also might want to stop short of extrapolating from a data point of 4 call center employees to our entire 300+ million population and making such a broad generalization about us (or at least "most" of us).<br /><br />Where are you from?George Vaccarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-17084892885941747082012-05-21T11:10:10.480-07:002012-05-21T11:10:10.480-07:00OH! MY! GOD!
Kids in elementary school know how ...OH! MY! GOD!<br /><br /><br />Kids in elementary school know how to do this where I come from... One more reason NOT to visit USA. Ever. <br /><br />Also: If someone still wishes to argue with me about most US citizens not being stupid, they have little ground on that topic. I mean... seriously? Grade school stuff?Fabuithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570067815062770739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-10923636834039359612012-04-06T06:55:26.876-07:002012-04-06T06:55:26.876-07:00Just heard this for the first time...
Assuming I ...Just heard this for the first time...<br /><br />Assuming I would be able to get through it without yelling, I would tell them to try to do the same thing with $.002 dollars. They'd probably see that the numbers are the same because they don't understand units.<br /><br />It's like to them it's only dollars if it's an integer and any decimal or floating point number would be the cents. At this point, I'd ask them to get anyone from accounting, or even Andrea's manager.Vol7ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08005005210238613866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-62419592114190186382012-03-30T09:06:24.782-07:002012-03-30T09:06:24.782-07:00The sad thing is you don't have to be good wit...The sad thing is you don't have to be good with maths to understand this. I Can't even do intermediate algebra and this issue is blatantly obvious to me. It is just so incredibly simple. Its something that should just be common sense even without a good grasp of mathematics.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11916180433098091892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-79144310169763463822012-03-22T17:27:06.712-07:002012-03-22T17:27:06.712-07:00My name is Andrea. Please do not judge all Andrea&...My name is Andrea. Please do not judge all Andrea's by this Andrea. I understand how decimals work. <br /><br />I just had a horrible experience w/ Verizon regarding their changes in surcharges without notifying their customers. When I asked the rep what her name and position was, she refused to tell me her title with Verizon. "It's none of your business. Where do you work? What's YOUR title?" is the response I received. <br /><br />Her name was Volerea. Assuming that was even the truth. Your video is comforting to listen to, which is sad. I wish I sounded as unhysterical as you did, but after so much unprofessionalism, I let her get on my nerves. Thank you for this.Commandrea (Andrea Afra)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08930488635661836337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-84002991661829835402012-03-09T17:06:57.524-08:002012-03-09T17:06:57.524-08:00Listening to Andrea respond each time is like fing...Listening to Andrea respond each time is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Total lack of any acceptance of responsibility or understanding of basic math. This is a court case that could be taken up where they would have to reimburse all past and current customers their losses because of the error as well. TicketMaster is having to do that right now for an error in their s/h clause.GlovesOffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08096181565649603894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-50121236151035077662012-02-01T15:25:05.145-08:002012-02-01T15:25:05.145-08:00"Say I used only 1 kilobyte. What would my b..."Say I used only 1 kilobyte. What would my bill be?"<br /><br />:head explodes:craignelson7007https://www.blogger.com/profile/07653909923462354263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-90568004794247009542012-01-27T10:27:58.754-08:002012-01-27T10:27:58.754-08:00HAHAHA!! I just tried to call Andrea and tell her...HAHAHA!! I just tried to call Andrea and tell her the word is getting out about her idiocy...the number has since been disconnected...LOLOLnetkrawlrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13743191419130048968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-29027514118367055702012-01-26T15:55:44.885-08:002012-01-26T15:55:44.885-08:00You are very patient. Are you a teacher?You are very patient. Are you a teacher?Irina Kostitsynahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09929912090263909340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-19028111405096720932012-01-24T18:09:25.559-08:002012-01-24T18:09:25.559-08:00This was the most painful thing I have ever listen...This was the most painful thing I have ever listened to. Wow. Just wow.Gailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09787777697686175465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-45519900150238260032011-12-09T17:57:32.229-08:002011-12-09T17:57:32.229-08:00ok.Have you ever heard the term choose your battle...ok.Have you ever heard the term choose your battles. I would have not been able to keep it together during that call. The phone would be in pieces...hats off to you for keeping your cool. I am not defending Verizon but its not the company its just some people in general. Good Jobs are apparently not as hard to find as smart people.spartfunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301804281815307155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-50212170256866416332011-12-06T11:32:08.159-08:002011-12-06T11:32:08.159-08:00Please tell me that you eventually had to pay the ...Please tell me that you eventually had to pay the correct bill? If not verizon should be sued for refusing to correct a mistake that they had made. Glad I'm with Sprint!! And theres no way i could've stayed that calm, would have quit after the first idiot, $71 is a lot different than $0.72.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-76475631605290291202011-11-29T21:02:43.481-08:002011-11-29T21:02:43.481-08:00Please tell me, you eventually walked into a Veriz...Please tell me, you eventually walked into a Verizon Store to fix this and showed them the conversion on paper, circling the units in red pen. I applaud your patience.Catalinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08819231132181632656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-76502413674033132432011-11-08T23:22:02.693-08:002011-11-08T23:22:02.693-08:00What's a couple powers of ten among friends? I...What's a couple powers of ten among friends? I wish I could advertise super-insane-low prices and yet still glean payments 10,000% greater from my customers ...drclaptophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691598119655735098noreply@blogger.com