tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post2365972131259506491..comments2017-02-09T09:55:21.559-08:00Comments on VerizonMath: Just got an email from Verizon...George Vaccarohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15304125791379242960noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-1003940611501900592009-12-22T22:00:24.724-08:002009-12-22T22:00:24.724-08:00I celebrated the 3rd anniversary of the original p...I celebrated the 3rd anniversary of the original post by reading the entire thread. For the benefit of anyone who's celebrating the 5th anniversary likewise:<br /><br />Obviously there are two definitions of cent <br>(and ¢):<br /><br />The precise definition of a cent is 1/100 of a dollar.<br /><br />The colloquial definition of a cent is any fraction of a dollar.<br /><br />With the latter definition:<br /> $0.002 == 0.002¢<br /><br />The expression "just my .02¢ worth" frequently shows up in technical posts. And there is never ambiguity.<br /><br />The recording suggests that the price is consistently written as $.002 per KB. From Verizon's point of view, the potential misinterpretation would not have been as obvious because their perception is focused on what they're reading, not what they're saying. <br /><br />Along the spectrum of usage, some people are only dimly aware of the precise definition. Undoubtedly, one them concluded that since $0.002 == 0.002¢ Verizon staff should specifically say .002¢ because it "sounds" cheaper. The first supervisor acknowledged that the actual price is 2/10¢ and I think that terminology would come naturally to at least *some* of the staff.<br /><br />In the end, someone in legal realized that the colloquial definition has no legal standing, and "fixed" the problem. Well, the legal types can be good for something.<br /><br />I think Mr. Vaccaro's compaint about being misquoted would be stronger had he gotten the quote in writing, or asked for the price per MB, which would unambiguously either be $2 or 2¢.<br /><br />FWIW, I was able to prove I cannot listen to this recording with my wife without an argument. Her response seems unique among the others described here. She agreed that 5¢ is not the same as $5; and 1/2 cent is not the same as 1/2 dollar. But she had no opinion on whether 0.5¢ equals $0.5 (zero point five cents vs zero point five dollars) because she can't do the math (although she's confident that 0.5 == 1/2). She also points out that she assumes that $.01 is merely a conventional form of 1¢ and is not aware that they are mathematically equivalent.Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05307403866345101278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-90172462917465196862009-10-20T11:36:49.025-07:002009-10-20T11:36:49.025-07:00"I have found that the customer service repre..."I have found that the customer service representative provided the correct pricing information."<br /><br />You can call the manager on the phone STUPID. But She is not. She is not stupid all. She clearly knows the fact and understood the situation. She just lies to your face.ligandxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05407349802183797715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-15753900978804596452009-05-15T13:18:00.000-07:002009-05-15T13:18:00.000-07:00This isn't even professional. This email doesn't e...This isn't even professional. This email doesn't even look like its written from a representativeWorlds Shortest Feministhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04143771646956751608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-11866565515589964952009-04-11T18:56:00.000-07:002009-04-11T18:56:00.000-07:00My favorite part is where she claims she will cred...My favorite part is where she claims she will credit you $-36.00<BR/>Really, all you need is a 50% increase in your misquoted bill!!!tesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01773583989135031849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-76533225900067804052009-02-09T18:43:00.000-08:002009-02-09T18:43:00.000-08:00Wow...listening to that phone conversation was so ...Wow...listening to that phone conversation was so frustrating that it made me angry yet depressed at the fact that somebody of that caliber is promoted to manager of anythingChrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02895100754900831886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-7628756560893439032007-02-01T21:02:00.000-08:002007-02-01T21:02:00.000-08:00Unlimited Earnings Potential - http://1greatfuture...Unlimited Earnings Potential - http://1greatfuture.com<br /><br />Our company is rapidly growing and offers you an extraordinary income helping others succeed. The primary requirement is to follow up on client inquiries and point them in the right direction. It is stress free, rewarding and straightforward work.<br /><br />For complete details: <a href="http://1greatfuture.com"> http://1greatfuture.com </a><br /><br /><br /><i>(Please feel free to delete this post if you don't want it on your blog. Thanks for the informative blog and opportunity to post.)</i>Great Futurehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05053874382696805501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-65616470318352549962006-12-23T15:33:00.000-08:002006-12-23T15:33:00.000-08:00First she once more confirms that the price they g...<i>First she once more confirms that the price they gave you is correct and then she says they'll settle with half of what they shouldn't be charging in the first place? No way. This is to stupid to be true!</i><br /><br />No, they want to refund him -50%.<br /><br />They want to charge him 15,000% of what they agree the correct charge is.<br /><br /><i>here is my response for the same issue<br /><br />My name is Eva, and I am eager to address your concerns for the kilobyte charges.<br /><br />On behalf of Verizon Wireless, please allow me to apologize for the frustration this matter has caused you. Verizon Wireless has a strong customer commitment to delivering the best from our service and staff. I am disappointed that you feel the service you received did not reflect this commitment.<br /><br />Upon further review of your account, I found that even though our explanation may have been confusing, you were provided correct information regarding the charge for kilobyte usage. We bill the usage at $0.015 per kilobyte. This means $0.015 of a dollar, not $0.015 of a cent.</i>$0.015 of a dollar?<br /><br />That DOESN"T EVEN MAKE SENSE<br /><br /><i>The verbal information given at the store was also correct. Your original e-mail indicated you were told "$0.015 cents per kilobyte." </i><br />Again, .015 dollars of a cent? That's just freaky language. I mean, it does MEAN $0.015, but they could just as well be saying $0.015 of a tomatoe, or $0.015 of a balding japanese man who likes to pretend to be santa claus.<br /><br /><i>If it was the charge you understood it to be, it would be verbally given as 0.015ths of a cent.</i><br />0.015ths?<br /><br />That can be parsed in three ways (it's stated as being the verbal pronounciation, so you can use excuse the mispunctuation. Kinda.) 0 .015ths of a cent (no 0.015ths of a cent for a grand total of $0/kb. For reference 1 0.015th of a cent=66.6 recurring cents) 0.0 15ths of a cent ($0/kb) or 0.01 5ths of a cent ($0.00002/kb, the quoted rate on the tape)<br /><br /><br /><i> The charges were presented and billed correctly and I am sorry, no a credits are due at this time.</i><br />The charges aren't even presented correctly in this e-mail. Sue their asses off.<br /><br /><br /><br /><i>Our form of currency is the dollar, so all transactions are stated in either multiples of a dollar or fractions of a dollar (the cent).</i> The cent is not any fraction of a dollar. A cent is precisely $0.01<br /><br />Our unit of length is the meter, so all lengths are stated in either multiples or fractions of a meter. A femptometer is a fraction of a meter.<br /><br />Is it true to say that your brain is roughly 0.2 femptometers in diameter?<br /><br />Actually, scratch that, in your case it's possible it actually IS.<br /><br /><i>When fractions of a dollar are used in computing cost they must be stated in decimal form such as .01 cent (1 hundredth of a dollar or a penny),</i><br />So 2 cents, to you, means $2?<br /><br />Yeah, 0.2 femptometers is sounding plausible.<br /><i> .05 cent (1 twentieth of a dollar or a nickel), .10 cent (1 tenth of a dollar or a dime), .25 cent (1 forth of a dollar or a quarter) or .50 cent (1 half of a dollar or a half dollar) and fractions thereof<br /><br />If something cost 1 cent per unit then you can’t multiply 1 X the number of units. You must first convert it to decimal form ($1 X .01 =.01) because 1 cent is 1 hundredth of a dollar. You then multiply .01 X the number of units.</i><br /><br />Wait, but YOU JUST SAID that 0.01 cents is $0.01<br /><br />That means 1 cent is $1 OR 1 cent=0.01 cents<br /><br />Femptometers. Yeah.<br /><br />I won't even bother responding to the rest because it's patently obvious that (as a Planck-length is a fraction of a meter) you believe your brain to be 0.2 planck-lengths in diameter.<br /><br />You in fact believe your brain to be 0.2 femptoplanck-lengths in diameter. And I agree with you.Kingreaperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05372198844035872123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-21941142372350185192006-12-20T10:32:00.000-08:002006-12-20T10:32:00.000-08:00Here's a way of explaining the difference that may...Here's a way of explaining the difference that may have worked:<br /><br />Start with a hypothetical rate of 2 cents per kb, and a hypothetical data usage of 1000kb. They will calculate this as $20. Ask how many cents this is. They will say 2000 cents. Now do 0.2 cents per kb, and ask for how many cents that is -- 200 cents. Now, 0.02 cents per kb ... 20 cents. Now, 0.002 cents per kb ... 2 cents.<br /><br />You can illustrate further by saying if we divide the rate by 10, what's the rate? And what's the charge? Then you do the same thing with the real data usage, starting at 2 cents/kb, and going down to 0.002 cents/kb. Keep them away from dollars entirely -- each time they mention dollars, make them re-state the amount in cents.<br /><br />The other thing you can do is try replacing kb with apples, to make it more tangible. If I buy 30000 apples from you for 2 cents each, how much does that cost. And 0.2 cents each... etc...<br /><br />Clearly, you shouldn't need to teach maths to a CRM, but it's helpful to have someone on the other end of the phone who understands it.Richard Russellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11810198480921598425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-58755791625824868162006-12-14T22:51:00.000-08:002006-12-14T22:51:00.000-08:00I agree with the last post. Although you are math...I agree with the last post. Although you are mathematically correct, the quoting convention of rates in the market are sometimes confusing, and in this case, i think the reps were very careful in stating ".002 cents per kb" so they are correct, and your bill of ~$70 is correct. Perhaps it would have been more clear if it was written ".002 (cents)"digitsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10150317192520418480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-27513941112258371372006-12-13T15:53:00.000-08:002006-12-13T15:53:00.000-08:00Our form of currency is the dollar, so all transac...Our form of currency is the dollar, so all transactions are stated in either multiples of a dollar or fractions of a dollar (the cent).<br /><br />When fractions of a dollar are used in computing cost they must be stated in decimal form such as .01 cent (1 hundredth of a dollar or a penny), .05 cent (1 twentieth of a dollar or a nickel), .10 cent (1 tenth of a dollar or a dime), .25 cent (1 forth of a dollar or a quarter) or .50 cent (1 half of a dollar or a half dollar) and fractions thereof<br /><br />If something cost 1 cent per unit then you can’t multiply 1 X the number of units. You must first convert it to decimal form ($1 X .01 =.01) because 1 cent is 1 hundredth of a dollar. You then multiply .01 X the number of units.<br /><br />So .002 cent is 2 thousandths of a dollar ($1 X .002 = .002 cent) just the same as .01 cent is 1 hundredths of a dollar. If you are quoted .002 cent per unit then you multiply 35000 units by .002 and you will get 70.00 or 70 dollars. If you are quoted .002 of a cent per unit then you must first make the calculation .002 X .01 = .00002 and then multiply to 35000 X .00002 and you will get .70 or 70 cents. I believe the was quoted .002 cents and not .002 of a cent.<br /><br />Maybe if Verizon had quote .002 of a dollar it might have been less confusing, but .002 of a dollar is .002 cent. I have never heard it stated as .002 dollar. All fractions of a dollar are stated in cents and written in decimal form for mathematical purposes. We have no other term for fractions of a dollar except cents when making mathematical computations.rtbyfchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17838841337181563230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-78045163997814843552006-12-11T18:47:00.000-08:002006-12-11T18:47:00.000-08:00I just now called Verizon Sales (1-800-899-4249) a...I just now called Verizon Sales (1-800-899-4249) and they quoted the KB rate for Cananda as "0.002 <b>cents</b> per kilobyte." I guess they have a slow learning curve!gethkyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13190378745512399985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-17541090594026241902006-12-11T14:26:00.000-08:002006-12-11T14:26:00.000-08:00The Google formula to produce the final price is e...The Google formula to produce the final price is either (substitute actual number of kilobytes):<br /><br />(0.002 cents per kilobyte) times (36000 kilobytes) in cents<br /><br />or<br /><br />(0.002 cents per kilobyte) times (36000 kilobytes) in dollars<br /><br />(try both, and try changing 0.002 cents per to 0.002 dollars per in each--good demo!)Epylarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00502093235694065399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-18087255871620450962006-12-11T10:47:00.000-08:002006-12-11T10:47:00.000-08:00I just found the recording and I must say, I am so...I just found the recording and I must say, I am so sorry you had to sit there with those idiots. Claiming something is only .002 cents and then charging .002 dollars is false advertising and is illegal. It could also be seen as fraud. I recommend all people who have solid proof that they were quoted and advertised .002 cents per kb start a class action lawsuit against Verizon.Brendanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04915984084421767565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-80417063862067454772006-12-11T08:47:00.000-08:002006-12-11T08:47:00.000-08:00Here's a simple response:
Nikki,
Thanks for the ...Here's a simple response:<br /><br />Nikki,<br /><br />Thanks for the response but the information you gave is conflicting. It is impossible for both the quoted rate and the billed amount to be correct because I was quoted .002 cents and I was billed .002 dollars [provide links to the google calculations]. If, as you claim, I was quoted the correct rate I will be more than happy to pay the seven dollars I should have been charged once you send out a corrected bill.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />blah blahBretthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04218634078242278020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-62589194785422047052006-12-10T13:15:00.000-08:002006-12-10T13:15:00.000-08:00here is my response for the same issue
My name is...here is my response for the same issue<br /><br />My name is Eva, and I am eager to address your concerns for the kilobyte charges.<br /><br />On behalf of Verizon Wireless, please allow me to apologize for the frustration this matter has caused you. Verizon Wireless has a strong customer commitment to delivering the best from our service and staff. I am disappointed that you feel the service you received did not reflect this commitment.<br /><br />Upon further review of your account, I found that even though our explanation may have been confusing, you were provided correct information regarding the charge for kilobyte usage. We bill the usage at $0.015 per kilobyte. This means $0.015 of a dollar, not $0.015 of a cent.<br /><br />The verbal information given at the store was also correct. Your original e-mail indicated you were told "$0.015 cents per kilobyte." If it was the charge you understood it to be, it would be verbally given as 0.015ths of a cent. The charges were presented and billed correctly and I am sorry, no a credits are due at this time.peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15082568220137841006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-76248412573990024832006-12-10T08:34:00.000-08:002006-12-10T08:34:00.000-08:00Wow!!!
I agree with the guys saying it is bigger t...Wow!!!<br />I agree with the guys saying it is bigger than a mathematical misunderstanding... it is now a Verizon (we-are-always-rite) vs. customer (all-you-wanna-do-is-steal-our-money).<br />Also, not saying that there arent math savy people here in America... I have had the pleasure to work with alot of you...<br />but you guys might need to spruce up you math education in your school systems...<br />Back home no kid would have made such a basic unit mistake...<br />is 0.002cm = 0.002m? <br />is 0.002mL= 0.002L?<br />is 0.002cent= 0.002dollar?Sanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10242279693393067288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-86315028695131725442006-12-10T05:13:00.000-08:002006-12-10T05:13:00.000-08:00Actually, the comment that the previous poster mad...Actually, the comment that the previous poster made (and Verizon might likely make) that the quoted rate was obviously wrong is ridiculous. I just looked up Verizon's "unlimited" data plan, which costs 80 bucks a month. As the Washington Post article linked to earlier points out, for Verizon's purposes, "unlimited" means 5 GB/month. 5 GB/80 dollars is, are you ready for it, 0.0016 cents per KB. So 0.002 cents/KB amounts to a 25% increase over his nominal American rate, while the rate he's getting billed is over 100 times larger! I am an American living in Canada, and have kept my Verizon cell phone as Canadian plans are rather sub-par. Verizon charges me an extra $20/month to have unlimited roaming in Canada added to my plan, or a surcharge on the order of 50%. So, from context, the rate that makes the most sense *is* 0.002 cents/KB, not 0.2 cents/KB. And, as far as context goes, ask Verizon what a reasonable rate to download a 5 GB movie is - $100, or $10,000? I'll bet you nobody answers $10,000.FrozenJonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02089755515630972570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-40053993865300405682006-12-10T03:16:00.000-08:002006-12-10T03:16:00.000-08:00Why don't you just pay the bill, ass. You're obvio...Why don't you just pay the bill, ass. You're obviously a savvy computer user and no one charges .00002 ... you're just being a dick and trying to take advantage of a mistake by a customer service rep. <br /><br />STFUbrooshkinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08197353230595912774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-88132159803711630232006-12-10T01:55:00.000-08:002006-12-10T01:55:00.000-08:00Tell them that you are pleased that they've offere...Tell them that you are pleased that they've offered you a discount, and you'll gladly pay <b>.50%</b> of the original bill.<br /><br />:-)Zugihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14553971916354985197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-5719038596558927892006-12-10T00:33:00.000-08:002006-12-10T00:33:00.000-08:00If only they would have said Ah OK we will charge ...If only they would have said Ah OK we will charge you 71c make that nothing.<br />Then fixed up their advertised pricing they wouldn't have had it plastered all over the Internet for everyone to see and say oh yea they overcharged me too.<br /><br />Ah well, I hope they at least learn something out of this other than basic math.Thehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10983586005689962318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-29467676826297410152006-12-09T23:59:00.000-08:002006-12-09T23:59:00.000-08:00Unbelieveable! It sounds like a combination of not...Unbelieveable! It sounds like a combination of not wanting to understand and not understanding the difference.Thehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10983586005689962318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-17810280320970246462006-12-09T23:32:00.000-08:002006-12-09T23:32:00.000-08:00I've worked in quite a few customer service compan...I've worked in quite a few customer service companies and this is quite typical of what passes for customer service these days. In fact I can tell you that the persons who handled that call that day were very likely commended for standing their ground. I don't think the representatives are necessarily at fault so much as the company itself. As well as all the companies I've worked for. One tries to do the best for the customer and is instead insulted and isolated for giving a damn. I remember one place in particular where the supervisor refered to the customers and thought of them each and every one as thieves trying to take advantage of the company. In her world there were no honest and decent human beings. I can only imagine the darkness of her soul. This is not the only person who I've run into in that kind of environment that has that kind of personality. Companies in fact treasure them as commendable employees. I'm sure all of you have known persons and situations like this. <br />In conclusion, please don't blame the representatives; they are only doing what is expected of them in a very tough and stressful job in a company where they are paid and treated very poorly. This is the nature of the call center environment. They are the soldiers on the front line who are betrayed both by their employer and by their employer's policies, which also betray the customer who happens to be the employee of another company who perhaps witnesses similar treatment or situations in their own job environment.Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09451000215902931724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-4508688033960292852006-12-09T22:45:00.000-08:002006-12-09T22:45:00.000-08:00I still think that this is ironic: http://www.coas...I still think that this is ironic: http://www.coastal.edu/math/mathcontest/Level2_04.pdfJuliehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06458061549075914738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-32765184898821085002006-12-09T21:52:00.000-08:002006-12-09T21:52:00.000-08:00@ Pedro,
Go into ur phone settings and change ur V...@ Pedro,<br />Go into ur phone settings and change ur Vmail number to the number of ur cell. Like u are calling from a landline, this will circumvent u being charged 4 checking ur Vmail.Evanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05845442527079286731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-516155314784643420.post-63529233599865123792006-12-09T21:15:00.000-08:002006-12-09T21:15:00.000-08:00i have to commend you for your patience. i would h...i have to commend you for your patience. i would have exploded. i exploded when i listened to the recording, and it's not even my problem!!! don't accept that offer. SOMEONE has to know how to do math around there.John Markhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12212349741022008781noreply@blogger.com